The Future of the SFZ Format

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

ras.s wrote: Please, oh please, try to find that time. Two years, three years, no problem! Maybe at the very least consider taking a long walk to think about how you would do it, if you would do it. It could do so much good and since you're an expert, you really are the person to do it.
Believe me I think about this often. What is needed is step by step tutorials and a full flat list of opcodes and what they do, what supports it, etc.

I'm with you but I keep cursing at the universe for a cloning machine to no avail.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

Post

A wiki-site with invited authors perhaps? Hidden from public view for some time at first ..

I don't know, but I hear you on the cloning machine.

Post

ras.s wrote:A wiki-site with invited authors perhaps? Hidden from public view for some time at first ..
Yes, a first pass would be to copy the SFZ 1.0 spec in there, then add the rest.
Perhaps adding empty entries for each 2.0 opcode, and fill these as time permits. wikia is a ad-filled nightmare, but at least no one has to backup it.

Any takes?
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

Post

DSmolken wrote:
SampleScience wrote:From my research, Sfz is not a viable format to sell multi-sampled sounds. There are too many compatibility problems with it... It's not very popular and most people don't care about it.
I don't know about the sell part, but it's certainly popular with people who like free stuff. Lots of times you see comments at BPB to the effect of "I wish there was an SFZ version".
From the data I've collected, they are a minority. Most people seem to have no idea what sfz is while Kontakt instruments and Ableton Live Racks are very popular and sought after. Even SampleTank is more popular than Sfz! The problem with Sfz is it's strength at the same time: it's open source, so you can do what you want with it, but because it's open source no company is promoting it. Even companies who used the format as a basis rename it to have a brand to promote! So, for sfz, no promotion means only people who encounter the format in their web searches knows about it.

I'm all about open format, but if it means failing as a company then I'll focus on platforms and softwares known to the average musician. The decision is easy to make...

Post

Eh. I've done a free cello together with bigcat in both SFZ and Kontakt, and a free double bass that's SFZ-only. Their first-month download numbers were almost exactly the same.

Post

DSmolken wrote:Eh. I've done a free cello together with bigcat in both SFZ and Kontakt, and a free double bass that's SFZ-only. Their first-month download numbers were almost exactly the same.
I understand what you mean and it's cool, but unfortunately it doesn't represent the whole picture. Sfz isn't convenient at all for the average user. Who wants to fiddle with code and have to adjust key parameters just to be able to play an instrument when you have tons of ready to use sounds with Kontakt or even SampleTank? For what you have, those commercial offerings aren't expensive at all when you consider all the time you save with them.

That being said, I wish Sfz would be more popular and I use open source softwares myself (I use Ubuntu on one of my computer). Maybe if a magazine like CM would release monthly "free" Sfz libraires, then it would get the attention it deserve. I know CM have released a couple of Sfz libraries in the past, but it was years ago, I don't know if they are still doing it once in a while though.

EDIT: Just to contradict myself, SamplePhonics monthly freebie is available in various format, including Sfz! :lol:

Post

Beat Magazin, which seems to be the Teutonic version of CM, did release a bunch of nice SFZ synth libraries that are intended for Beat Zampler, and take advantage of its built-in controls and interface. There are a few on the Zampler page, plus more I think on Beat's Facebook. I use their Waldorf drum samples a lot.

Post

Instead of clumsily adapting a core graphical interface that needs to fit inside a .sfz format, why not work the other way around?Start with a graphical interface and build a new format that would easily mesh into it, while keeping it open sourced and preserving all the good things about it that have caused its propagation and longevity.

Post

Tjivory wrote:Instead of clumsily adapting a core graphical interface that needs to fit inside a .sfz format, why not work the other way around?Start with a graphical interface and build a new format that would easily mesh into it, while keeping it open sourced and preserving all the good things about it that have caused its propagation and longevity.
Exactly, Beat Magazin's Zampler doesn't support Sfz, it support it's own version of Sfz. If I remember well, I think those patches came as .fxp, am I right?

Post

SampleScience; behold, a long post, but consider all that you're saying as major selling points. I don't need to have Kontakt or SampleTank in order for you to sell me sampled instruments. Sure, I'd like to have Kontakt, but it's unlikely I'm going to buy it because I'm a poor bastard and NI's pricing policy is such that I'd better buy Komplete than a single plugin from them, which would mean I'd need to buy a new hard drive too, and it just amounts to nothing but excuses for not making music.

If I'd buy sampled instruments from you, damn right I'd expect that I don't need to tinker or fiddle with them myself -- it's your job as a developer/salesman to make them useful and attractive for my purposes as such. Obviously the benefit of SFZ is that I could use the raw samples to construct something entirely my own, either as SFZ or just manipulating the samples themselves. Perhaps I could look at your instruments and learn something myself, adding value to me as a desktop musician and not to Kontakt as the crown jewel of NI's hegemony. The format itself makes your products more useful for more purposes and clearly "adding value" is your core business if you sell sample packs with mappings.

And it's not a long sentence you have to write to your potential customers to say that there are free SFZ players available for the major platforms, and I think there's something for Linux as well (perhaps something cheap for iOS and Android too?). It's no different than Kontakt or SampleTank: they work without tinkering, given that the SFZ instruments themself are well made.

That's not to say that the tinkering side is bad: it's something that makes the format even more useful and powerful because I can tinker if I want.

Then when some plugins have more thorough implementations of the standard than others -- you could make that into your marketing as well. Recycling is a must! Make one real fine instrument to be used with Sforzando and then trim it so that it works well with Synthmaster, giving the customer entirely different sonic possibilities. There's a whole lot of people holding strongly on to their copies of Alchemy and I'm sure at some point many of them would like to have more content for it (and even more so if they can easily use the content elsewhere than their aging Alchemy). You could sell people two or more products from the same sample set, so even if it sounds like more work, it's also less work (you don't need to come up with another set of samples) and targets different audiences.

Post

SFZ:
"It's just for geeks"
"It's just for amateurs to pass on their latest bunch of bedroom samples"
"Nobody knows about it"
"Everybody knows about it"
"I can't make any money out of it"
"It's the most powerful format there is"
"It's the most flexible format there is"
"It's free"
"It's for the people, by the people"
"It's not kontakt so who cares"

Anyway...

Here's a link from the LinuxSampler project that some may find interesting.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UxP ... 7605dd233e

Post

Marctwo wrote:Here's a link from the LinuxSampler project that some may find interesting.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UxP ... 7605dd233e
Well hey, look at that...

Post

Marctwo wrote:Here's a link from the LinuxSampler project that some may find interesting.
That's a lot nicer since the last edition of the LinuxSampler doc I saw. Very nice.

Post

It seems like a great way to distribute free instruments. There is no additional cost. All you need is a DAW, a free SFZ player and the instrument. My thought is that it is creating the SFZ instruments that is tough. I'm probably missing something, but it just seems like Kontakt has generally optimized the workflow of creating instruments. I suspect that the easy of creation helps it dominate. If a SFZ creator program had drag and drop and autosort by note for dozens of notes at a time, the format would see many more instruments. Now it seems like working in DOS when the rest of the world is using Windows.

Also it seems like you can do things scriptwise and scripts are available for Kontakt that can't be done in SFZ, though I'm not sure. For instance I'm starting to use Big Bob's WIPs scrips on the old Iowa samples. It adds legato, vibrato, fake round robins and you can drop in AET easily for smoother velocity changes between layers. It's pretty easy to do. I just don't see the equivalent in SFZ. Again it might be my ignorance of SFZ.

PS - I obviously didn't read a lot of this thread as much of this has already been said. But what are a couple hundred more words on a thread this size?
Image

Post

bigcat1969 wrote:I'm probably missing something, but it just seems like Kontakt has generally optimized the workflow of creating instruments.
I find using Kontakt a killer in terms of my thinking about what I'm doing. The UI is utterly painful and I avoid it *hard*. With SFZ, I have a programmer's text editor with syntax highlighting (Notepad++) that makes writing the mapping as pleasant an experience as writing any other document. I far prefer that. (And there's a couple of dedicated tools for SFZ editing but I'm no fan of them :).)
bigcat1969 wrote:Also it seems like you can do things scriptwise and scripts are available for Kontakt that can't be done in SFZ, though I'm not sure.
Depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you're okay with being tied to a single sampler (i.e. you're tied to Kontakt or the ARIA engine or one of the Cakewalk SFZ synths), then you've a lot of power -- just very different approaches in getting there. I would say Kontakt still allows the free sample set developer to go further than Sforzando. But the paid up ARIA Engine developer gets some more assistance (though I think Kontakt still just beats it - I've no direct experience, just looking at the results).

Post Reply

Return to “Samplers, Sampling & Sample Libraries”