6 years down the line. My advice to anyone getting started

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I started watching friends play the guitar asking questions and buying my own. When it came to basics like chords they'd show me and ..the rest was on me. I got pretty good on my own figuring out stuff, writing and playing songs. Then I hit a long wall. I knew there was more out there then I could comprehend or achieve by simply buying books. So I stated looking for teachers.

I learned more in 6 months with a good teacher then in 6 years without one. A good teacher. That's not to say I didn't go through a bad teacher or two before I found one right for me. Eventually I could comfortably sight read notation on the spot and it lead to a career. I'd regularly be pulled into high paying session work (Before the collapse of the professional studio) and got well paying gigs performing live with acts.
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Very good post. There are no shortcuts to learning unfortunately...

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Deep Purple wrote:I think that's excellent advice, although I don't necessarily know that you always need a teacher - it's always possible to be self-taught or get a lot of knowledge from friends and other musicians.

Playing an instrument is always going to be a huge benefit to any musician, and just trying to use the building blocks approach is rarely going to do anything other than make you sound just like everyone else, and I doubt it will ever give you that satisfaction of being able to sit down and just play for the joy of it.
Personally I think having a teacher is a lot more helpful as they will explain things from a different perspective as well as showing you things you may not have looked into in the first place.

People who don't have a teacher are usually the very talented and motivated ones (Im not one of them unfortunately :( )

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Is there really all that much of a distinction between self teaching and formal teaching? Self teachers consult multiple teachers. Being a member of this forum has taught me ALOT in a very short space of time for example

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dewgong wrote:Is there really all that much of a distinction between self teaching and formal teaching? Self teachers consult multiple teachers. Being a member of this forum has taught me ALOT in a very short space of time for example
For production there isn't, most of the stuff can be learned online.

But playing and instrument and improvisation do requiere a teacher because of playing technique which IMHO is harder to grasp from videos. And again: for learning piano fingerginf and posture are things that can only be corrected by a teacher and if done wrong can lead to injuries.
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A teacher can watch you and hear you as you play. An online video can't do that.
The teacher might be able to point out the slightly different hand position that, once learned, makes life much easier for you. A video may not be able to put all the potential tips, tricks and technqiues into each video without losing the presentation flow. So there are definately advantages to having a teacher.

That said, not everyone has access to a decent teacher either because of where they live, their living situation, money etc...

You might find that the more experience/knowledge you've gotten on your own, the better at finding a teacher for your needs you will be. You know more about what you're looking to take away, what kind of time commitment you can give, etc... Whereas when you're first stating out, you might not be able to judge whether a teacher or course is right for what you want - you might not even have a good vision of what you want.

For example, I have a friend who was self-taught (and pretty competent) from a fairly early age decided he wanted to learn from a proper teacher. He took lessons from the first teacher that he found that seemed to be well accredited and regarded amongst other players he knew. They taught classical piano (which most piano teachers tended to teach - at that time anyway, perhaps things have changed in the last 15 years or so). He hated it, and gave up after a year in frustration. A mutal friend who played on passenger cruise ships for a living then suggested a teacher who specifically taught jazz piano, rather than classical, and he ended up sticking with that, loving it, and enhancing his playing and composition tenfold through it - all because he didn't have to learn things that were not needed for what he wanted, and actually served to get in the way and slow down the learning process.
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.

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great thread... a teacher is greater than trial and error any day of the week... about teaching yourself... there are some who can teach themselves... but not everyone can... about networking... with a teacher... instead of networking you will be practicing... PRACTICE is the key word here... a teacher pretty much forces you practice... i.e. you are going to have a lesson next week... a lot of individuals do not like to practice... and that is why they know some much about their DAW, synth programming, using effects, etc, etc, etc... because they are easier to learn than practicing daily...

i agree with the OP 110%... if you are starting out... just pick "one" DAW and get a teacher and learn to play an instrument... to be honest... how could someone know more about compression, eqing, delay, etc, etc, etc without knowing something about making the "actual" music... because you apply compression, eqing, delay, etc, etc, etc to the "actual" music... in other words... the "actual" music comes first... but it is easier to trial error compression, eqing, delay, etc, etc, etc, then sit at lets say your piano practicing scales, mode, etc all day...

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dewgong wrote:Is there really all that much of a distinction between self teaching and formal teaching? Self teachers consult multiple teachers. Being a member of this forum has taught me ALOT in a very short space of time for example
i have question for you...

do you know "rule of thump" that:

ii usually resolves to V
V usually resolves to iii
iii usually resolves to vi
vi usually resolves to IV or resolves to iii
IV usually resolve to vii
vii usually resove to iii

now if you know you what the modes of the key is... pentatonic scale and pentatonic jazz scale... with voice leading (for the chords)... you would be able to write a trillion songs... a teacher can bring you right to this without the "trial and error" process...

again... it goes back to PRACTICE... it will take PRACTICE to master this in every key... then that bring us back to learning compression, eqing, etc, etc, etc... it is easier to teach or "so call" teach yourself that... i.e. you are just turning knobs...

sitting down at your instrument for a few hours a day takes a special type of person... an individual with an attention span greater than 20 minutes... an individual that know there are going to be good days and bad days as far as practicing goes... but continues any ways...

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Its worth noting that the jazz greats were almost all self taught. They also taught each other. Self teachers dont learn in a vacuum they do have input, its just not being delivered by one individual. The best approach depends on the person to be honest. Some people cannot deal with information presented in a teaching situation, they have to go away and absorb it privately

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dewgong wrote:Its worth noting that the jazz greats were almost all self taught. They also taught each other. Self teachers dont learn in a vacuum they do have input, its just not being delivered by one individual. The best approach depends on the person to be honest. Some people cannot deal with information presented in a teaching situation, they have to go away and absorb it privately
first off... please read what you wrote again... you used the term "jazz greats"... just curious... how many "jazz greats" do "you" personally know? in other words... these people are not just walking around every day... i.e. "jazz greats"...

again... it is not about the "information" or amount of "information"... it about practicing/applying the "information"... a scale is a scale is a scale... whether you teach yourself or get a teacher... you must "still" practice those scales...

most individuals have problems with practicing... a teacher "helps" insure that you are practicing... because you will have a lesson next week... if you are not prepared for the "new" lesson... you are wasting your money and time...

right? maybe?

teaching yourself... you do a little here and little there... with a teacher... it becomes a routine...

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willdub1 wrote:Choose an instrument and take lessons from the best teacher/tutor you can afford. You need to forget about all the technical bits and focus on the art itself. All that stuff about plugins and mastering should take the back sit at least for now. My biggest mistake getting started was thinking that if I knew everything there is to know about the science (DAW,Synths,Effects) I would automatically become a great producer. I couldn't have been anymore wrong. By learning music theory you will gradually learn about composition, orchestration and then the science and all the technical aspects of music will eventually become part of the equation. But i didn't follow the routine and skipped stages so i wasted a lot of time and energy getting here. Don't make the same mistake I did. Stick to the routine.
Well said, but I think it's crucial to learn in a way that allows you to understand the what, why and how of music. If, as many people do, you rote-learn how to play Wonderwall's chords on a guitar but you don't even know what key you're playing in or what intervals make up a minor scale or what's a dominant to a tonic then you haven't learned much. It's amazing how many guitar and bass players know next to nothing about music theory. And it's not like any of it is complicated if put in the right terms, but you can be a pretty proficient player and still manage to avoid learning the essentials (tablature notation isn't helping either).

So I'd supplement your advice by stressing that learning how to play an instrument should be a means to the end of learning about music in general, and if you pick a guitar first focus on the very basics of playing any music which is playing monophonically before you dive into strumming all strings at once.

And just learn lots and lots of tunes. Music is one of those things where you can't do anything worth a damn unless you know how a lot of other tunes are made, and when you're a beginner every new tune you learn/analyse has something new to teach you. And if you want to compose more than to become a session player don't overly focus on playing like a virtuoso, because then the understanding what's happening is more important than how well you actually play. So don't play one tune to death until it's good enough that you can record it (nothing wrong with that, it's just very time consuming and not the goal), just learn as many as you can well enough that you remember every single note and understand the structure of them all. I think you can judge how well you understand a composition by how easy it is for you to remember how it's made.
DodgingRain wrote:Someone that teaches an instrument isn't going to teach very much theory, its going to be mostly time spent on learning to play a specific instrument and it's techniques.
That might be a problem. I took piano lessons as a kid and I feel like I learnt nothing except how to place my hand and how to painfully try to figure out where those black circles on paper mean I should put my fingers. As for EDM you don't need to learn EDM, you need to learn music. Pretty much all music is based on the same principles, just with different genres having different emphasises.
dewgong wrote:Its worth noting that the jazz greats were almost all self taught. They also taught each other. Self teachers dont learn in a vacuum they do have input, its just not being delivered by one individual. The best approach depends on the person to be honest. Some people cannot deal with information presented in a teaching situation, they have to go away and absorb it privately
I think an aspect of self-teaching is that you can cut down to what's really important to you. For instance a teacher might insist on teaching you how to read standard notation and that's just not working for you, by teaching yourself you might have your own way that is much more meaningful to you, and you can spend the time that would have been lost to the teacher trying to get through to you by instead working to understand the works that inspire you. But not everybody can be a better self-teacher, you need a good approach for that.
Developer of Photosounder (a spectral editor/synth), SplineEQ and Spiral

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neverenoughfunk wrote:teaching yourself... you do a little here and little there... with a teacher... it becomes a routine...
Unless you set yourself targets and routines. At the point where I started getting better at playing I started practicing every day and trying to learn one new song every week.

You don't need a teacher to set a routine - you can do it yourself.
Sweet child in time...

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I agree with Deep Purple, Not that I am experienced, but I have made some cool electric guitar work on my songs such as Opposite, D$B Look to the Light,., and uhm some weird jam song I did that was creepy like devils on the phone or something like that.

Deep Purple. I highly value your works. I like a lot of it. Even that trippy car stuff. Sweet Child in time, epic guitar solo. That's one thing I .... :speculate does need practice, and only practice. I cant do it however yet, I plunge into my two strings. But im on the creative side.

I find I like blues and stuf like Pantera. Blue oyster cult and lack Sabbath. Ive gone to a couple lessons before and I don't find they each anything worthwhile like that.

However I feel with some patience and some humility I find myself jumping into the wagon too, right along side sometimes with sch people. Not great, and no where near, but along the lines of I get some riffs sounding similar even when im not trying. I try to imitate that again. yeh im a newbie, but its fun!

I like dialing in and experimenting with guiat pedals from Waves,com. and ofcourse Waves amps.


ANyhow, I see the point of lessons sometimes, But ifeel with self teaching I kept my creativity and spontaneity.

Ive been doing the DAW thing slowly for years now, Guiatr a crept into finally ALAS a couple years ago finally again. Its fun. Its rough, its dirty. That just me so far.

Thanks for all those works so far ive heard from such. Its amazing.

may sponanuity live.

Faith Fox
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Grace and love

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Hello, I am new here.
I have enjoyed with all of your posts.
Thanks for sharing. :D

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Deep Purple wrote:
neverenoughfunk wrote:teaching yourself... you do a little here and little there... with a teacher... it becomes a routine...
Unless you set yourself targets and routines. At the point where I started getting better at playing I started practicing every day and trying to learn one new song every week.

You don't need a teacher to set a routine - you can do it yourself.
just curious... how may targets and routines have you set for yourself and you did not get the required results? i.e. started college and finished, home projects, etc...

not sure if you ever took lessons... but ask anyone who has... the longest 1/2 hour in the world is having a lesson with your teacher and you are not prepare... which helps enforce practicing... if there is not teacher... what helps enforce practicing... because just like starting college, home project, etc... i will start "tomorrow"!!!

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