Anyone excited to control their VSTs with Akai Advance?

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

...it's interesting to see how long it has taken that this area of the market isn't neglected anymore; interesting to see these solutions coming up or specifying further at approximately the same time.

It makes me think about how much companies have avoided it (for obvious reasons - tedious work = costs a lot of money and motivated employees to do this stuff right) and how many areas they see that have been untouched to make revenues.

For me the most logical step would be to wait and see what NI are coming up with, as I use their stuff almost exclusively. But seeing how it has been handled and organised with Kore and Maschine leaves me quite sceptical (on the other hand, they have to make it right this time!). I don't know how their internal discussions go, but I guess, some people over there might kick themselves over seeing e.g., how their categorisation system for describing sounds has been copied by numerous other developers over the years (for these wrappers as well as single plug-ins), while they have dropped it or made it "easier" respectively (in my view unusable, as one of the main aspect of a sound it its timbre which doesn't exist as a category anymore). I could be wrong, but I think, the first time such a system has been presented has been with Kore. This system was so much ahead of its time in many areas and then again had quite a lot of flaws, it's probably better that it has been discontinued. I really hope they will manage to get a fresh start and do it right this time, but they probably have to regain a lot of trust with some people.

Anyway, this whole situation is really unsatifying - a wrapper plug-in may work fine, but it's essentially adding another possible source of errors to the equation. And it's laying your eggs into one basket, which can always cause problems. I have the feeling we wouldn't have all of this if manufacturers could come together and agree on a new standard protocol. If we had Midi 2.0 or Midi HD or whatever we wouldn't have these problems, but then again manufacturers wouldn't be able to do one's own thing...

Post

Can't say I'm excited about these keyboards when my Novation Launchkey has been doing this for a few years now......at a quarter of the price too.

Ok it doesnt have the little colour screen, but personally I don't see the big deal with the whole "you don't have to look at the computer screen" selling point anyway. I mean, I have 2 x 22" computer screens.......why would I want to look at some tiny little screen instead of those? :?:

Post

chaosWyrM wrote: im pretty sure we all know exactly how a company works...and in this particular case...it looks like theyre selling a $200 controller (that you most likely dont need) to use with $200 (and thats VERY generous) software and charging $600 for it.
...to be fair I think, pricing the software at 200$ isn't very generous, as it probably is the biggest chuck of development costs. Precisely, building the plug-in and preset database. Mapping one plug-in in a reasonable manner is not an easy task and mapping all available plug-ins is an enormous amount of work. And tagging all the presets of these instruments is mind-blowing. All of this can't be done by a machine, it must be done manually by a person who is educated in these areas (e.g. to know how to describe tens of thousands of sounds comprehensively and consistently). This education and man hours of a number of people you need to do this must cost an enormous amount of money (also in order to keep these people happy because you must hate your live to do all this work)...

Post

loachm wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote: im pretty sure we all know exactly how a company works...and in this particular case...it looks like theyre selling a $200 controller (that you most likely dont need) to use with $200 (and thats VERY generous) software and charging $600 for it.
...to be fair I think, pricing the software at 200$ isn't very generous, as it probably is the biggest chuck of development costs. Precisely, building the plug-in and preset database. Mapping one plug-in in a reasonable manner is not an easy task and mapping all available plug-ins is an enormous amount of work. And tagging all the presets of these instruments is mind-blowing. All of this can't be done by a machine, it must be done manually by a person who is educated in these areas (e.g. to know how to describe tens of thousands of sounds comprehensively and consistently). This education and man hours of a number of people you need to do this must cost an enormous amount of money (also in order to keep these people happy because you must hate your live to do all this work)...

they mapped 250 vsts...sure, thats nothing to sneeze at...but its not like its really that many in the grand scheme of things. most people will still have to either map things themselves or settle for whatever it gives them automatically. in the case of presets...have fun with it autotagging. it seems to be relying on proper tagging of presets by the people who made them, and they only did factory banks (which makes sense), so youll have to do your own 3rd party banks.

in the case of vst control it maps only "the most popular controls"...not all of them, and they decide which ones those are.

you HAVE to use a map...and i dont see anywhere where it will make a map for you like automap does (which is why theres an "auto" in there)

they did 250 ...and are calling that "most of the vst instruments available on the market today". im not so sure it is, and im damn near positive its not most of the vstis people actually use. so...people are going to have to do it themselves.

all in all...it doesnt sound to me personally that they really spent that much time mapping/inputting things.

again...dont get me wrong...i think it sounds cool and all...but i certainly wouldnt spend that kind of money for that software or that controller.

and finally, the amount of time and money it takes to make software has no bearing on its value. i could theoretically spend 5 years and 20 million dollars to write software that automatically sends out a text saying happy birthday on your birthday. is it then worth $500? i have to recoup my investment dont i?

the value comes from what it does not how long and how much it took to make.

is vip+controller worth $600? im sure to some it is. not to me though.

i would consider throwing them a hundy for the software alone...maybe.



here from the akai website:

Plugin Maps

Included with the VIP software are over 250 Plugin Maps for most VST Instruments (VSTi) on the market today.

Keep in mind that you do not need a Plugin Map in order to use your favorite VSTi with VIP. You can easily manage and import maps for your own VST instrument plugins, import and add presets, and customize your tags. You can find a video walk through here.


What is a Plugin Map?

A Plugin Map gives you the following:

Automatic Factory Preset Importing

The VIP software automatically imports all of the built-in factory presets from your favorite VST instrument (VSTi) directly into the VIP software for instantaneous access.

You can also easily and quickly import all of your own User Presets. Here is a video walk through.

Automatic Category Tagging

The VIP software automatically assigns Category Tags to all of your VST Instrument (VSTi) presets that have been imported. This allows for the ability to find the specific sounds you want without the need to scroll through all of the individual VST instruments and their presets.

Every factory preset is automatically tagged according to the type of sound it produces, such as Instrument Type, Timbre, Genre, and Articulation.

You can also easily add and delete tags as you see fit, create new category tag names, and assign any tag(s) to your imported user presets without limitation. Here is a video walk through.

Automatic Controller Mapping

The VIP software automatically maps the most popular parameters of your favorite VSTi right to the Akai Pro Advance keyboard hardware controls, providing instant real-time control over all the patches in all of your plugins.
Last edited by chaosWyrM on Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
ImageImageImage

Post

Why oh why has NI abandoned Kore? It was way ahead of the new solutions which more and more get en vogue.

Bring it back! Reengineer the Controller/Navigation, add a touch enabled (for morphing) color LCD, scribblestrips beneath the pushable knobs, small form factor (iPad size) to place it on an existing keyboard, and for the sake of glory bring back and modernize the software, WITHOUT built in engines (instead extend all their plugs to a player version, which only work in Kore, if need be, and only show GUI within Kore when licensed)...

It might be so easy...

Post

@ chaosWyrM

...the info you posted was news to me, simply because I didn't follow Akai as their announcement didn't impress me - and I'm still sceptical. The info can be found here (for others who are interested):

http://www.akaipro.com/kb/article/1801
http://www.akaipro.com/kb/article/1800

Having an automated process to import a plug-ins preset database doesn't solve the problems entirely, because the categorisations and how they are used don't necessarily match and may vary between manufacturers. And one has no guarantee, thht the manufacturer themselves have tagged the presets properly (I know examples where this is the case). So, this automating things could possibly just unitise mistakes. So I tend to agree with your estimation of this software's value. What I meant before was only under the condition that things are done right. And either way - consolidating different databases (supervised) or building a completely new one does require manpower. Perhaps most people at Akai were busy doing the Rhythm Wolf or Timbre Wolf and that's why they needed an automated software... :D

Post

This video shows the preset management part in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoSn5tuHiQE

Post

It impresses me you guys are so excited about the plug in management and mapping. The second I specially co sider trickier since everyone has different needs and workflow so the posibility of getting totally useless mappings is big.

The management of plug ins with wrappers is not a good solution, in the long it messes up with old projects.

And all this to use f**** 8 encoders.

IMHO plug in management should be improved by the DAW developers and should make easy to use any controller.

Controller manufacturers should design controllers that can actually control software instruments easily with many controls, led rings, screens and sensible layouts.


That' s why Maschine, Spark and ti some extent Push work for their respective software: sensible layout.
dedication to flying

Post

I already have a Novation Remote SL...
The only kind of controller that would replace it, would be one with:
- A lot of knobs/sliders, and some buttons too.
- A TFT (or e-ink) screen for every one of the above.

Post

to be fair though, vip does a lot more than just control vstis (like automap), in fact id say thats its secondary function. the preset management and recall looks pretty spiffy and seems like the main function, and the quick layering of multiple synths is also pretty cool.

its just a matter of how well will it work under real world conditions.

i mean is it going to be useful with peoples 50,000 sylenth and massive patches? the way im seeing it (and i could be totally wrong) is that when you try to import those, its going to be a gigantic mess because 3rd party presets are almost never properly tagged.

im very skeptical indeed. it looks like it will be awesome...for the things they mapped....and a huge pita for anything they didnt.


i also already have a novation remote sl (mkii), and after an initial complicated set up...automap has been friggin great for me. i dont have the fancy preset management...but i can control everything without having to hardly do any work at all.

seeing as how its a controller...i think thats worth way more than preset management.
Last edited by chaosWyrM on Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

Post

Would it make sense to use a synth like minibrute as a midi controller for vsts? It has more knobs than most controllers and placed in a more intuitive way

Post

loachm wrote:...I'm actually more excited about the stuff Nektar are doing.
Funny, when I saw the thread topic, I clicked with the plan that I'd post about Nektar if no one else had mentioned it .. and here I find a bunch of posts about it! Yay!

I was very interested in the Akai until I understood that their software behaves as a wrapper. I had looked at Nektar a while back when they only listed deep support for Reason. I checked again recently and discovered that Logic Pro integration was added. LPX is my daw of choice, so I promptly ordered one.

The Akai is a great idea as long as you are happy with its limitations. I often work on projects with other people, so Akai's wrapper is a deal-breaker for me. My collaborators and I have most of the same plugins (so I don't have to bounce/freeze often), but we definitely have different hardware.

The P6 was backordered from JRR Shop, so I've been waiting for Nektar to provide more. I'll hopefully be receiving it by the end of next week. Once it arrives and I get familiar with it, I'll happily report back with my findings.

Post

I have a Nektar P6 and it's superb, I use it with Cubase 8 and it works flawlessly. The wrapper idea of other systems makes no sense to me, Nektar have used the existing integration options that the DAW provides, so there is no difference to the project if you stop using it.

Post

andy4trance wrote:Would it make sense to use a synth like minibrute as a midi controller for vsts? It has more knobs than most controllers and placed in a more intuitive way
No, the minibrute's knobs/sliders don't send out midi CC's.
And even if it did, it doesn't save patches, so using the controls would change the sound you made on the brute itself.

Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1jrYgXwRtE

At 7:50 you can see something the VIP solution can do, that the Nektar can't - switch plugins on the fly while a track is playing, to preview different sounds in context.

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”