Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

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The Drop

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Mace404 wrote:USB (storage) device serial numbers can be changed with the right software (and not only talking about the volume id).
The USB protection Waves (and Plugin Alliance) is using is clonable.
This intrigued me so I checked and found the answers here:
http://digfor.blogspot.se/2012/04/usb-f ... nique.html

Volume ID: Stored on the hard disk itself and is changeable.
Device Serial Number: Stored in the hardware and is NOT changeable. But there are a couple of problems: 1) Cheap china-manufactured devices will not have purchased a range of proper serial numbers from the USB consortium, and often use random/all-same serial numbers. 2) According to the article, there are rootkit tools that hook the Windows kernel calls for checking the serial number, and can report a fake one. Programs using the standard APIs for reading the serial will see the fake ID. There are ways around it (doing your own low-level interaction with the USB device, without involving the kernel at all), but implementing that in a plugin sounds difficult and like more trouble than it's worth.

I guess someone as big as Waves doesn't care about the chinese USB keys and the potential spoofers, so they probably use standard Windows APIs, but I think Cytomic would care. Especially now that the hacking information has been made even more public.

Time is better spent on other development and not on copy protection. :)
Love. :tu:

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JohnnyA wrote:
andy-cytomic wrote:I cannot provide support for a usb drive authorisation system, I've just spent a long time sorting out this one and need to get on with writing new plugins. At some stage in the future once I've grown the business it may be an option, but only if there is a secure way to identify a usb drive, which I don't think there is unless the usb drive is a dongle, and I don't want to go there.
Just jumping in to help you out: All USB drives have a serial number, which can be read using APIs on any OS. Tie the authentication to the serial number of that drive, and make sure the drive ID and the auth matches, and you'll be sure they only put the auth on one device.

I am pretty sure that what's being read is a "USB device serial number", and that all USB devices have one, so I don't think there's any way for people to change the serial number of their USB drives.

Here's how to implement it:
* Writing: User selects target drive -> You read its USB device serial number -> Generate an auth and store it as a file on that USB drive.
* Reading: User selects auth file from USB drive -> You detect that it's of the type "USB authorization" and check what disk it's on -> You read the serial number of the USB device corresponding to that drive location -> You now know whether the auth is on the correct USB device or not.

I am pretty sure this is exactly how Waves implemented their USB disk authentication alternative, since I can't think of any other ways to uniquely identify USB disks.
Here is how it will happen in practice:

* User downloads regular copy of Cytomic software including an auth file for a particular USB serial number
* User installs USB serial number faking software device driver which maps a folder on their HD as a USB hard drive and types in the USB serial number they want to use
* User runs Cytomic software without paying for it

To secure communications between a computer and a USB device requires encryption at all stages, the driver level, in the software on the computer, and on the USB device itself. This type of setup is commonly called a "dongle".
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Hi Andy I'm getting Failed to load the Audio Unit "the Drop" in ableton 9.1.7 with the latest update
I love music but more than that, I love making it

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homunculus wrote:Hi Andy I'm getting Failed to load the Audio Unit "the Drop" in ableton 9.1.7 with the latest update
Sorry for the late reply, I was sick all last week and only just getting back on top of things. Is this trying to load an old project? If so then since v1.0.6 there is a new plugin ID so you need to have both plugins installed to load old projects. Please check the release notes for details. If this is on a clean project then please email me with your system details: www.cytomic.com/contact
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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News: A new version of The Drop is ready for download, for those people with Windows XP that could load the plugin please let me know if this now resolves the issue.

Download: https://cytomic.com/drop

The Drop v1.0.16 (16 Arp 2015)
  • New: HiDPI support on Win
  • Fixed: changed library calls so plugin loads on Win XP
  • Fixed: more robust machine id generation on Mac
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Just wondering, authorization will carry between updates right? I won't need to reauthorize the plugin for every new version?

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JohnnyA wrote:
andy-cytomic wrote: I am pretty sure this is exactly how Waves implemented their USB disk authentication alternative, since I can't think of any other ways to uniquely identify USB disks.
Just for note though, those two USB protections you noted (the ones implemented by Waves and Plugin Alliance) have both been bypassed/cracked/whatever you wanna call it for quite some time. I'm not convinced their trustable, and IMO not convenient either.

In the land of all things perfect everybody would have CP schemes both rock solid and super painless like u-he (serial key), that's not always how it is though. I don't dig C/R, but I can live with it. Between quickly using C/R and not having access to The Drop....well, that's an easy decision. Gimme The Drop! :)

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KingTuck wrote:Just wondering, authorization will carry between updates right? I won't need to reauthorize the plugin for every new version?
Auths will carry between updates. A minor revision (e.g. v1.1 to v1.2) with re-trigger you having to provide your email and password again, but it won't increase your authorisation count. I have used metrics that remain constant per machine / operating system, so for 99% of customers even reformatting their hard drive and updating operating system won't trigger another auth, but in the rare case there are issues I will issue more. The authorisation system is designed to allow reasonable freedom to customers using the software they paid for on multiple of their own computers, but provide a barrier to blatant pirating and abuse.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Okay, I can respect that. My studio computer is offline, so I used offline auth. I deleted my response file after authorizing my copy. Will generating a new response file for offline auth (for e.g. v1.1 to v1.2) use up another auth? I presume the challenge code should always be the same on my computer, does the C/R system know not to use up another auth should it be fed the same challenge code from a previous auth?

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KingTuck wrote: Just for note though, those two USB protections you noted (the ones implemented by Waves and Plugin Alliance) have both been bypassed/cracked/whatever you wanna call it for quite some time. I'm not convinced their trustable, and IMO not convenient either.

In the land of all things perfect everybody would have CP schemes both rock solid and super painless like u-he (serial key), that's not always how it is though. I don't dig C/R, but I can live with it. Between quickly using C/R and not having access to The Drop....well, that's an easy decision. Gimme The Drop! :)
I did ask Urs about his system, but his serial key allows an unlimited number of authorisations to occur on any number of end systems, so if a single serial is leaked then that specific version is "cracked" and nothing can be done about it being leaked and used by anyone wanting to use illegal software.

The only approach that is appropriate for Cytomic to prevent abuse is to generate a hashed value based on the end computer being authorised. This is the only non-dongle approach that I know of that prevents abuse and also is reasonably secure. For a majority of people either typing their Cytomic account password and email at the web page or in the plugin's authorisation window is pretty much equivalent, and is actually quicker and easier than typing in a serial number!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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KingTuck wrote:Okay, I can respect that. My studio computer is offline, so I used offline auth. I deleted my response file after authorizing my copy. Will generating a new response file for offline auth (for e.g. v1.1 to v1.2) use up another auth? I presume the challenge code should always be the same on my computer, does the C/R system know not to use up another auth should it be fed the same challenge code from a previous auth?
You can re-authorise on the same machine + os as many times as you want without using another authorisation. If you delete the authorisation file it won't matter, re-authorise and you will see you stay on the same authorisation count.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic wrote:
KingTuck wrote:Okay, I can respect that. My studio computer is offline, so I used offline auth. I deleted my response file after authorizing my copy. Will generating a new response file for offline auth (for e.g. v1.1 to v1.2) use up another auth? I presume the challenge code should always be the same on my computer, does the C/R system know not to use up another auth should it be fed the same challenge code from a previous auth?
You can re-authorise on the same machine + os as many times as you want without using another authorisation. If you delete the authorisation file it won't matter, re-authorise and you will see you stay on the same authorisation count.
Awesome.

Final question here (for now at least :D), do you intend on adding more filter models to The Drop? Not looking for anything near to promises, mostly wondering about your philosophy on that. Whether it's something you'd like to do, or whether you see The Drop done as a project in that way.

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KingTuck wrote:Awesome.
Good! As always if there are any issues where unexpected authorisations are incurred please email me and I'll be able to sort it out.
KingTuck wrote:Final question here (for now at least :D), do you intend on adding more filter models to The Drop? Not looking for anything near to promises, mostly wondering about your philosophy on that. Whether it's something you'd like to do, or whether you see The Drop done as a project in that way.
Please consider The Drop as a finished product and only make purchasing decisions on what is on offer right now. I do not expect to add any more filter types for free to The Drop. The most likely situation is I do another bank of models and sell this as an add-on, but I'm not sure even this will happen.

The Drop contains the following filter structures / topologies: MS1, MS2, OSR, SMP, JPR, SHR, PRD - so seven detailed circuit models, each with it's own distinct tone. I'm not aware of any other filter plugin that even comes close to the tone and variety of filters on offer.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic wrote: Please consider The Drop as a finished product and only make purchasing decisions on what is on offer right now. I do not expect to add any more filter types for free to The Drop. The most likely situation is I do another bank of models and sell this as an add-on.

The Drop contains the following filter structures / topologies: MS1, MS2, OSR, SMP, JPR, SHR, PRD - so seven detailed circuit models, each with it's own distinct tone. I'm not aware of any other filter plugin that even comes close to the tone and variety of filters on offer.
Oh I'm not asking out of comparison with other products. I just ask to gauge how you think about this stuff. As an example, Urs may well add more modules to Diva. He's already added some since release. Diva currently has more modules than any other similar VA synth out there, and is still competitively priced. Just the way he rolls. Different developers/people run stuff with different philosophies. It's no biggy.

I always make purchases well aware of what's on display and with a disregard for what might-could be-someday. The Drop has all the bang for it's buck it needs. Absolute curiosity on my part. I'm very happy with my purchase. :)

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Any truth to the rumor that there will be a license transfer fee from here on out?

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