KVR Audio

malphuncous · Post by **malphuncous** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:07 pm

That is a good question, indeed! This is actually my first plugin and my first commercial project. Definitely worthy of note.
My experience with audio has been mostly on the hardware-repair end and not on the software end until now. Working on a friend's broken Ensoniq DP is what inspired the project, as I realized what a well documented design it had. My experience with C++ and digital circuit design has been largely academic, so I can understand if people want to wait until the beta-testing stage to commit anything to my project.

I did my "rewards" section on kickstarter based on some admittedly vague suggestions. For future reference, what might people have rather had as rewards?

malphuncous · Post by **malphuncous** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:13 pm

Emulating the SQ-80 would definitely be fun, trying to nail down the behavior of the analog filter, but this would be far in the future, most likely.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:15 pm

I'd prefer it if the VSTi sticks to "one" engine, not emulating several. Though pity for the Kullmann VSTi.

deltaMACHINE · Post by **deltaMACHINE** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:06 pm

He EPS16+/ASR10-(AU) is a dream but please you need to emulate the FX board thats inside the hardware to! And the Ensoniq SQ80 wants everybody in the MAC world for sure.

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:51 pm

IIRC, the DP-4 had the equivalent of 4 ASR-10 FX processors, yes? Beautiful FX to be sure.

Best of luck with the project!

-B

drunken jesus · Post by **drunken jesus** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:38 pm

malphuncous wrote:That is a good question, indeed! This is actually my first plugin and my first commercial project. Definitely worthy of note.
My experience with audio has been mostly on the hardware-repair end and not on the software end until now. Working on a friend's broken Ensoniq DP is what inspired the project, as I realized what a well documented design it had. My experience with C++ and digital circuit design has been largely academic, so I can understand if people want to wait until the beta-testing stage to commit anything to my project.

I did my "rewards" section on kickstarter based on some admittedly vague suggestions. For future reference, what might people have rather had as rewards?

You may wanna hold off on the kickstarter 'till you have some progress to show, estimating this to be done in less than 6 months is pretty optimistic, getting at least a GUI mockup coded would be a decent start

For rewards I'd add a hardware emulation prototype as a really high reward and add names to the credits for a moderate amount

MachineClaw · Post by **MachineClaw** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:15 pm

I have read the Kickstarter page for this project.

I think you are over simplifying the copyright legal issues.

Creative has held onto and has protected it's rights to Ensoniq/EMU products. I think you need to get permission from Creative before you start this venture. this project could be dead before you lift off.

especially since the kickstarter is proposing retro emulation of code, ROMs or OSs.

the kickstarter page mentions video game cases to support that it is okay to do some of the things that are proposed for this project but does not give citation to specific cases. as far as I have read (I am not a lawyer) video game case law regarding creating ROMS or backups applies to individuals and does not give permission or a legal right to distribute copyrighted materials.

since this is Kickstarter Project you are infact profiting from this project and Creative may have issue with it.

I am a huge EMU / Ensoniq fan. I have some hardware devices I currently use, but for me this project is to risky for me to back without more reassurances.

malphuncous · Post by **malphuncous** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:50 am

Yeah, you should read up on it. You don't seem to know much about it. I have already spoken with a lawyer. We are fine.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:03 am

What guarantees do I have, that you won't take my money and run?
Will the backers have influence on the development process? Can they force you to continue working on it?!

Sorry to say this, but I've seen this happening several times at this point (anybody still remember "Design Desk"?).

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:36 am

As a former EPS owner, I would love to see this succeed. But there are a lot of troublesome issues at play here. Despite assurances that you have spoken to an attorney, it does not appear that you have contacted Creative to secure their blessings. You have never coded a VSTi before. You believe that you can have the whole thing competed in six months. At the outset of the campaign, you have nothing to show to back up your claims. You seek funding not for the project, but to cover "living expenses". Even if you have the skills to pull this off and do so without getting into legal trouble, I doubt that you have demonstrated a low enough risk for investors to carry this through to a successful funding.

malphuncous · Post by **malphuncous** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:44 am

Lots of useful feedback! I definitely see where you all are coming from on this thing. If I had the license already in place, that would make it a much safer investment, regardless of whether I think I would win a lawsuit or something contingent like that.

Also, I may have worded the kickstarter poorly. I meant it to be clear that I was hoping to have begun beta testing in 6 months. Since this is my first project of this sort, maybe if I had some sort of alpha testing phase which was free, or even upped some of my code as I worked on it, then you all would have more information before putting down money.

As far as the money being for living expenses, would it be weird to add a breakdown of my expenses? Like... rent, utilities etc...? I don't really want to hire anyone else to do the coding, or I guess my fund raising goal would be to pay the salary of a C++ coder for however long they quote, but I could find a programmer who has VSTi/AU experience, most likely.

I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to post their thoughts and questions. The customer support aspect of software has certainly made the difference between a worthwhile product and a waste of money, in my experience. I think the best course of action is probably for me to focus on obtaining a license, as several have stated, and then on showing some working code. If I'm not able to do that before the end of the funding period, then I will continue coding part time until I have something to offer to beta testers.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:07 am

Legal issues aside, the fact is that coding a VSTi is not easy. Writing DSP code is not easy. Reverse engineering a complex system composed of hardware, firmware, and a disk based OS is way beyond not easy. Producing an end product which actually sounds like the original hardware is even harder.

Do you feel that you have adequately demonstrated to potential investors that you can do these things?

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:23 am

malphuncous wrote:Lots of useful feedback! I definitely see where you all are coming from on this thing. If I had the license already in place, that would make it a much safer investment, regardless of whether I think I would win a lawsuit or something contingent like that...

It would.

malphuncous wrote:I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to post their thoughts and questions.

I must say I am impressed with your not having taken the commentary 'personally', and not gotten defensive as many others have/would, but seen it as, "constructive", as well as {wisely} precautionary. well done.

all the best with this en-devour...

{especially: the DP-4+}

malphuncous · Post by **malphuncous** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:36 am

It sounds like my technical explanation deserves more detail on the kickstarter as well. I'm not writing any significant DSP code, save for the filtering I'm experimenting with to copy the converter sonics. I'm mostly only writing an emulation of the original hardware, which then is able to load DSP code. The only code of mine in the signal-path will be, as I said, some attempt to mimic the converters, and this code will be optional for people who don't care about converters. For the DP/4+ specifically I am not reverse-engineering anything, as the full documentation is available online for free. I am re-implementing the instruction-set of the ESP2 chip. The schematic for the DP/4+ is on the kickstarter. Motorola processors have already been emulated many times over. There are free, open-source libraries which are compatible with commercial re-use through the GPL, for example. In my previous experience simulating digital circuits, timing issues and coding schemes etc... can be a headache to sort out, but I'll at least say that it's much preferable to do in code than in hardware, because you don't have to connect tiny logic analyzer probes. For the ASR-10 and EPS-16+, I haven't found complete schematics, but I could upload my drawings once they are finished. Again, these are relatively simple computers from the early 90s.

Whether coding a VSTi is inherently more difficult than some other coding project, I have no reason to suspect either way. I've written real-time applications before, for example. Is implementing a real-time application which is making calls to classes in Juce inherently more difficult than, say, one which talks to a fax machine? I guess I'll find out.

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:37 am

deastman wrote:
Do you feel that you have adequately demonstrated to potential investors that you can do these things?

Well he has background in hardware things if I read right, so he must know thing or two about electrical circuits. That's necessary, not all developers who try to code analog emulations have experience in that field (which suxx)

Ensoniq ASR/EPS emulating VSTi launched on kickstarter