Hollyhock II is a tinkerer's dream...

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After passing over Usine countless times I have to say, the latest version is amazingly slick: http://www.sensomusic.com/. It's not an actual DAW replacement IMO but man, for stringing together things or dreaming up odd control schemes, I don't think I've seen anything like it.

For example, I've been trying, in my limited leisure time, to build a physics-based control setup for max with bouncing balls controlling various parameters (basically I've been trying to replicate some Ambitron concepts in max). Max would certainly allow somebody more talented than myself to do whatever they dreamed of, but after hours of study I still haven't been able to get beyond the visualization part. It's been interesting and a learning experience, but I'm at the point where I want to at least see some light at the end of the tunnel, and I don't.

In Hollyhock 2 I had a frame with bouncing balls in it controlling granulator parameters in five minutes. Collision info, X/Y position, speed, angular speed. It's all there and a matter of dragging that output to whichever input you want it to control. My implementation is not very refined yet, but at least the basic framework is up and running and I can go from there (rather than trying to wrap my head around parsing this and that and the other thing). They rightfully put their physics engine on the front page:
http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki3/doku.ph ... cal_engine


Another example is my Leap controller. With Max, as far as I could tell (and to my amazement), even the elites are struggling to get it to do anything directly in Max. What works is to translate Leap to OSC outside max, then use the OSC in max. But at that point I can skip max altogether, because all I'm getting out of it is OSC assignment.

In Hollyhock 2, there's a 'Leap' module you just drop in and connect the parameters, they are all there:
http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki2/doku.ph ... leapmotion


The single window interface makes things a bit daunting at first and I'd personally prefer an optional popout window for the workspace (maybe there is, I haven't really delved in yet), but the capabilities are great and the ease with which you can implement these things is truly amazing. You can achieve so many things so quickly, you don't have to worry that your 'left index finger z velocity' controlled mod wheel might not work as well as expected. :D

Anyway, back to some tinkering. It's 50% off for now and that been money well spent already...

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Thanks! Please report back with what you find! Very interesting

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wasi wrote:After passing over Usine countless times I have to say, the latest version is amazingly slick: http://www.sensomusic.com/. It's not an actual DAW replacement IMO but man, for stringing together things or dreaming up odd control schemes, I don't think I've seen anything like it.
I'm with you @wasi.
I don't know whether it just wasn't up to my expectations before or I just wasn't ready for it but am loving it now. The patching system is the most streamlined i've come across.
As you say it doesn't replace a DAW but it may well replace Ableton Live for me - at least the way I use it. Setting up processes - letting them go with some tweaking - recording to separate files and mix them elsewhere.
I've done similar with varying levels of success with Max but it's much quicker here - no wheels to reinvent.

Great stuff! :tu:

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I haven't really had a chance to play with the new implementation yet, but you could do most of this with the previous versions too, maybe the new one is a bit easier to set up though?

Here's a generative patch made (with much help from Nayseven) using the physics engine and Iris to create a windchime, using a scales device to constrain pitch to scales (the video doesn't have audio as I just used Quicktime to record it and it only records the screen but I have added a track made using this).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... erator.m4v

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... chimes.mp3

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aMUSEd wrote:I haven't really had a chance to play with the new implementation yet, but you could do most of this with the previous versions too, maybe the new one is a bit easier to set up though?
I think this is it. It's smoother running and seems much easy to do things. There are a number of pre-builts that I don't recall from U5 or HH1.

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Intriguing, but I have Numerology 4 for extreme modularity and Lemur with physics engine, plus Tassman...how much more does this add? And is it really easier to program than Reaktor or M4L? I like both of those but in all honesty mostly for the vast choices of others' creations

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@wasi: To have pop-out windows, go to preferences and under "Layout Style" set "Use floating windows".
But be aware that now all windows are floating...
I personally would prefer to have finer control and move just the patch window to the second screen...

@jc_vt: I myself found Max annoying to program and Reaktor too. IMO Usine is much closer to an artistic/performance kind of nodes/coding than those two. Most of it is higher level and there are many pre-made components that I personally find mostly very easy and straightforward to use.
But try the demo, these things are very different from person to person.
Lemur and Numerology are rather different beasts in my view.
But it should be easy to connect to Lemur since Usine supports OSC very well.

I love how you just wiggle a parameter in a VST GUI in Usine and then it's available as a modulation connection on the node, where many other modular tools only have generalised Midi or Control inputs that I find much more complicated to get at.
Compared to Bidule, it offers many ways to build very individual GUIs. And the new Timeline/Grid is a great step forward for me.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
Sculptures ScreenDream Mastodon

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secretkillerofnames wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:I haven't really had a chance to play with the new implementation yet, but you could do most of this with the previous versions too, maybe the new one is a bit easier to set up though?
I think this is it. It's smoother running and seems much easy to do things. There are a number of pre-builts that I don't recall from U5 or HH1.
Yes Nayseven put together the bouncy balls module for me at my request using the physics engine and explained to me how to patch it all together, it looks like that was the inspiration for the one that is in H2.

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OK taking a look at the device list for H2 - can't seem to find this anywhere:

Image

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jc_vt wrote:Intriguing, but I have Numerology 4 for extreme modularity and Lemur with physics engine, plus Tassman...how much more does this add? And is it really easier to program than Reaktor or M4L? I like both of those but in all honesty mostly for the vast choices of others' creations
I just discovered that I can run Numerology 4 with full LaunchpadS control in Hollyhock 2. It's pretty kick ass - never worked so well for me in Live or Logic.

It's definitely easier than Reaktor and M4L. Whether it is as deep as those - i'm not sure. On one hand it isn't trying to be a synthesis DSP and on the other it isn't quite a multimedia environment. The modules i've fiddled with so far relate to data manipulation, interface control or signal modification.

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I've been twiddling with Usine on and off since it first appeared
and am just delighted with the way it's blossomed over the years.

In the early days, Usine was an interesting if primitive and quirky
little oddball but now, with the release of Hollyhock 11, it's a fully
mature and robust platform, capable of pushing the most extreme and obscure
boundaries.

I use it mainly as a platform for jamming and improvising in a manner
similar to how many people use Live but with much more satisfying
results. I never really took to Live, which always seemed a little
toy-like to me (no offence intended to Live users - just my old and
grouchy opinion) but I have no such issues with Usine. It provides an ideal
platform for free-form live sets and improvisation and is capable of just
about anything the use could dream up.

Usine is perfect for 'what if I ...' situations and experimentation
and is much quicker and easier to use than Max or Reactor or tools
such as Bidule, Audiomulch etc. Much more versatile too, with several
super useful tools such as a timeline, interface builder etc and the
ever improving interface is joy to use once you become familiar with it.

On top of that, the new version appears to be all but unbreakable.
I've been torturing it for a few days now but haven't managed to get
it to hang no matter what I throw at it. No doubt there are bugs but I've
yet to run into them.

All up, Hollyhock 11 is the nuck's duts of modual hosts and anyone interested in
audio experimentation would be well advised to take a very serious look at it.

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Nice to see Usine gets some props here.

I used it several years for playing live with a band.
Fairly simple stuff actually (playing VSTi's, some FX live processing, switching scenes...), had everything I needed (and more), loved that interface builder so I can only see what's important on stage.

That was with Usine 5, kinda lost track after that because the band split, but I'm sure it's even more awesome now. :tu:

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aMUSEd wrote:OK taking a look at the device list for H2 - can't seem to find this anywhere:

Image
I think that's just an XY-Pad with multiple 'pucks'. You set the number in device settings.

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mothballs wrote: I use it mainly as a platform for jamming and improvising in a manner
similar to how many people use Live but with much more satisfying
results. I never really took to Live, which always seemed a little
toy-like to me (no offence intended to Live users - just my old and
grouchy opinion) but I have no such issues with Usine. It provides an ideal
platform for free-form live sets and improvisation and is capable of just
about anything the use could dream up.
This is what i'm looking for in Usine - Improvised Process Tweaking similar to do what I do with Live but maybe a bit less restricted / grid like and uniform. Patching my way out of the boundaries.

Usine is perfect for 'what if I ...' situations and experimentation
and is much quicker and easier to use than Max or Reactor or tools
such as Bidule, Audiomulch etc.
I find Bidule and Mulch easier but not as deep.
Agree with the "what if..." I'm finding it great for "What if I chain X+Y+Z and control it with A and a little bit of B"

Something i'm interested in - anyone got any improvised electronic sets published online using Usine?
Also anyone using the Leap Motion in live performance?
Just dipping my toes into those waters.
Ducks Nuts indeed!

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wasi wrote: I think that's just an XY-Pad with multiple 'pucks'. You set the number in device settings.
Image

Yes I think so also!

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