KVR Audio

CapnLockheed · Post by **CapnLockheed** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:32 am

Very curious, especially as I've gone and gotten a Fishman Triple Play and am quite happy, but not necessarily satisfied, with it. Looking forward to this.

If you're not satisfied with the FTP I guarantee you will be less satisfied MG 2.0.

neshel · Post by **neshel** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:57 am

CapnLockheed wrote:
Very curious, especially as I've gone and gotten a Fishman Triple Play and am quite happy, but not necessarily satisfied, with it. Looking forward to this.
If you're not satisfied with the FTP I guarantee you will be less satisfied MG 2.0.

Mmm, while ASIO drivers for the TP work well for response and latency, MG 1.0 was actually better at picking out light picking and hence legato. It just too easily got bandwidth saturated with chords, and would miss pitches here and there within sustained-note arpeggiations.

stroker_ace · Post by **stroker_ace** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:41 am

neshel wrote:Well, well, well. I only check this thread for updates, so I'm just now finding out. Very curious, especially as I've gone and gotten a Fishman Triple Play and am quite happy, but not necessarily satisfied, with it. Looking forward to this.

Like someone here already posted, it's highly, highly unlikely you will be more satisfied with this than the FTP. I'd say it's virtually impossible.

There are only two ways to go with guitar synths: learn to play impeccably, or go with a Roland VG/GR system, and buy a guitar with an under-the-saddle system, or fit one of your guitars with one.

The way I understand it, and I might not be using the proper terminology, but the essence is there, the VG systems (I'm not 100% sure about the GR systems, but I think they operate the same way) work two ways:

they can convert the incoming hexaphonic guitar signals to MIDI notes, which you can then send on to a synth. that conversion will never track 100% perfectly

or

they simply apply effects to each guitar string individually to create other guitar, and sometimes synth, sounds, and that essentially always tracks 100% perfectly. well, 99%. there will always be an odd squeal or glitch, but the tracking is spot-on, because, like I said, I don't even think it IS tracking; just effecting.

The guitar modelling in the VG-99 tracks perfectly, because it's using the latter scenario; there's no conversion involved, just effecting the (6, one for each guitar string) incoming audio signals.

I believe the GR-55 works in this way for synth sounds, but I'm not 100% sure. I was going to buy one, but to me, it's not worth it, as, like you, I'm quite happy with the MIDI conversion/tracking on my guitar synth set-ups (Godins through a VG-99/GI-20). And the synth engine in the GR-55 can't hold a candle to my Waldorf Blofeld, or the plethora of soft synths that I own. So I would maybe gain that last 5%-8% of tracking, but I would only have a very sub-standard and restrictive synth to use that "perfect" tracking with.

Better to practice and play cleaner, and have a wider, higher-quality range of sounds at your fingertips, I say!

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:05 pm

I was checking out the Roland Gr55's midi capabilites on Youtube, seems really bad.

Thr internal sounds track well, if you should like them.

neshel · Post by **neshel** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:10 pm

"...that wild bunch is back iin towwwn..."

I had a GR-1 in '95. It was decent. A guy in a music store about ten years ago told me the Axon (I think he said mark I ) was tons better. And I thought about that, but lack of USB in anything this side of '00 is ridiculous. Old midi is ridiculous. (Even were I wealthy, I wouldn't bother with old hardware.) The TP is far better than the GR-1 (I doubt Roland has improved/changed their tracking engine since), and since the TP was designed by the guy who designed the Axon, it's no wonder. I think a problem in all of them is they look for sound - rather than a particular pitch, and then 'refuse' anything else - because you can get octaves by doing harmonics.

In any case, I think MG 2.0 will have something impressive, else why do it?

stroker_ace · Post by **stroker_ace** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:02 am

neshel wrote:"...that wild bunch is back iin towwwn..."

I had a GR-1 in '95. It was decent. A guy in a music store about ten years ago told me the Axon (I think he said mark I ) was tons better. And I thought about that, but lack of USB in anything this side of '00 is ridiculous. Old midi is ridiculous. (Even were I wealthy, I wouldn't bother with old hardware.) The TP is far better than the GR-1 (I doubt Roland has improved/changed their tracking engine since), and since the TP was designed by the guy who designed the Axon, it's no wonder. I think a problem in all of them is they look for sound - rather than a particular pitch, and then 'refuse' anything else - because you can get octaves by doing harmonics.

All reports say that the Triple Play tracks extremely well. But there are three major drawbacks to consider......

It's clunky. Having something attached to your guitar is just plain ugly, and completely ruins the look of it. Fender made a Triple Play Strat (I think it's been discontinued), which would definitely be the way to go.

You can't control hardware synths without help. With the TP, you have to go into your DAW and control hardware synths through it.

no 13-pin connector = you can't get into the magical world of Roland's guitar modelling

rich_h · Post by **rich_h** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:57 am

Well, the clunky bolt-on thing is true for any add on guitar to MIDI, so no worse really than sticking a GK-3 on it (although I do agree entirely that it doesn't look that great).

There is a TriplePlay application that you can set up to control hardware synths, so you don't need to go into your DAW to set that up.

I guess whether or not it has the 13 pin connector is a matter of horses for courses, personally I have no need for it, but again I can understand why someone might discount it for that reason.

Personally I find the TriplePlay tracks much better than MIDI Guitar so I can live with the above shortcomings. Indeed, MIDI Guitar just won't track one of my guitars, whatever I try!

The principle downside for me with the TriplePlay is interference the wireless connection. It operates in the 2.4GHz spectrum so is susceptible to interference from Bluetooth and WiFi, and as it's also the signalling frequency of USB3 I find I have to keep the receiver well away from any USB3 cables otherwise it just won't connect to the controller.

stroker_ace · Post by **stroker_ace** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:40 pm

rich_h wrote:Well, the clunky bolt-on thing is true for any add on guitar to MIDI, so no worse really than sticking a GK-3 on it (although I do agree entirely that it doesn't look that great).

No, it's not. Having a guitar with a GK-3, under-the-saddle, or Triple Play pick-up already installed is definitely the way to go.

rich_h wrote:There is a TriplePlay application that you can set up to control hardware synths, so you don't need to go into your DAW to set that up.

The point is that you have to go through your computer. Therefore, to me, it's a minus.

rich_h wrote:I guess whether or not it has the 13 pin connector is a matter of horses for courses, personally I have no need for it, but again I can understand why someone might discount it for that reason.

It's downright essential to me. The ability to create and then play a Frankenstein guitar (2, actually, simultaneously!) with the VG-99 and a guitar with a 13-pin out is one of the coolest things on the planet, imo.

rich_h wrote:Personally I find the TriplePlay tracks much better than MIDI Guitar so I can live with the above shortcomings. Indeed, MIDI Guitar just won't track one of my guitars, whatever I try!

The principle downside for me with the TriplePlay is interference the wireless connection. It operates in the 2.4GHz spectrum so is susceptible to interference from Bluetooth and WiFi, and as it's also the signalling frequency of USB3 I find I have to keep the receiver well away from any USB3 cables otherwise it just won't connect to the controller.

I didn't know about the interference thing.

I guess that's 4 strikes for the TriplePlay, all puns intended.

No, I'm sure it's a cool unit, and I might even pick up a guitar with one installed in it at some point, as it would be lovely to lose the extra cable, even if only in some scenarios.

It's just not a complete solution.

BuleriaChk · Post by **BuleriaChk** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:10 pm

A quad-core I7 at 3.5 Ghz is probably a lot faster than any hardware solution, expecially if you have a decent soundcard (mine is Focusrite). So the signal going into the computer pitch-detection software is as pristine as anything going into Roland's hardware.

Then it merely becomes a matter of how good the rest of the chain is. I play nylon-string Takamine, and have been astounded at how good Midi Guitar is at detecting what I play, with the Palathetic pickup and CTP-2 preamp. And it even does chords reasonably well... and it worked flawlessly with all my guitars...

And the software can get better; not so much with the hardware.... And any guitar with a pickup will work....

YMMV, but I tried Roland a couple of times (with electric guitar), and MG is at least as good, if not better. Fishman equipment is excellent as a general rule, but of course it probably won't work so well with nylon string...... but I'm not qualified, since I don't have one. But MG is a much, much simpler and elegant solution if it will work for you.... you do need a laptop, though...

I'm looking forward to the upgrade.....

neshel · Post by **neshel** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:47 pm

I covered hardware synths, et al.......

I don't care what it looks like. An embedded device is great for reason of device safety, but it ain't necessary for me.

I haven't, that I could tell, had any issues with interference with the TP. I plug the receiver into the front of my desktops, though.

Note, as I understand it, the TP does the pitch detection and conversion, pre-PC injection.

I don't see a cable issue. With a 13-pin pick-up, you have a cable. Playing regular guitar along with the TP, you have a cable. Especially as guitar cables are cheaper and more rugged, I see the latter as a better option. It's easy to say, 'ohhh, why can't it all be wireless??' Would be, could be, nice. But ain't.

But I'm not interested in having regular guitar available. I want something else, and [my] guitar is a preferred interface. Fini...

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:06 pm

I want to shred with midi..,I don't mean scales, modes, book learning adventures, I'm talking soul adventures.

The Roland Gr55 looks hella latency, haven't heard the Fishman yet. I don't care about artifact imperfections, it'll only give me more to work with.

BuleriaChk · Post by **BuleriaChk** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:18 pm

Get a Push...

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:08 pm

For those of you who have missed the Migic thread, it's worth checking out while in free beta. Similar to Midi Guitar, but tracks as fast as Tripleplay.

stroker_ace · Post by **stroker_ace** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:06 am

RunBeerRun wrote:I want to shred with midi..,I don't mean scales, modes, book learning adventures, I'm talking soul adventures.

The Roland Gr55 looks hella latency, haven't heard the Fishman yet. I don't care about artifact imperfections, it'll only give me more to work with.

rich_h · Post by **rich_h** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:28 am

stroker_ace wrote:* loads of stuff *

Well, I did say horses for courses. It works ok for me as I don't need or want access to the guitar modelling, whereas your requirements are different. I just wanted to make the point that it's a good device *for me* and my requirements and it works much better for me than MIDI Guitar, although I'm looking forward to seeing how well version 2 works.

Mine sits on my Variax so I already have my Frankenstein guitars

Although that could set me off on a whinge on how hard would it have been for Line 6 to have incorporated a 13 pin socket on the damn guitar. But I won't.

Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI VST/AU "MIDI Guitar"- BETA TEST