KVR Audio

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:49 pm

Hey all.

I'm helping a vocalist friend integrate iOS tools into her gigging band's setup, via her new Air 2. The first element to integrate will be a vocal processing app. But after a lot of browsing, I'm uncertain what program(s) to go for.

The features I'm looking for are
A) MIDI Control - change presets, and processor controls with midi controllers. Midi faders linked to delay or reverb controls, and buttons or knobs that can be assigned to preset cycling, as a set progresses.

B) Routing options - Would really like to be able to handle two input signals, and process them differently. A second vocalist, or an instrument.

C) Decent level of preset control and fidelity. Want to be able to fine tune presets to fit specific songs with a specific kind of sound. I'm very wary of programs that are more like toys, that offer minimal control.

Earlier today I was looking at Master FX, as it seems like a very solid tool, but it doesn't seem to meet criteria A. That makes changes during performance difficult, if the iPad were to be also running another program, like a sampler. Indeed, bringing in sampling next is the next stage once she's comfortable with vocal tools...

Can anyone share their experience in this area?

Thanks all.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:14 am

Well, the lack of replies could mean a few things....
Is the problem that my feature demands are too thick?
Maybe this combination of features only caters to an exotic form of a use?
Perhaps there's not that many vocalists who check these boards?

Or - and I would find this most surprising - Is there simply not a program for vocalists, with robust routing, midi, and effects control?

I purchased Master FX in the meantime. It wasn't quite right - No midi control, lacks a distortion/saturation unit, and I ran into some strange instances of feedback that I couldn't halt. That last one would be catastrophically bad live. Otherwise, pretty good.

festeringheap · Post by **festeringheap** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:48 pm

Check out Vocalive. I think it's a little pricey at 19.99. Seems to go on sale every so often though. Vocal pitch effects and tuning with MIDI capabilities.

Spiritos · Post by **Spiritos** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:40 am

I too think Vocalive is the app of the moment for vocalists. Has in-app purchases though so $19.99 easily becomes more.

Not exactly what you're looking for but a very nice one is Vio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw25_onpEU8

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:28 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I'd looked at VocaLive earlier, and something about it put a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe it was their marketing, or sales strategy, I don't remember now. But on double-checking, I see that there is at least some MIDI capability... Preset switching is possible, I read, but I'm also looking for mapping discrete controls to a MIDI controller. Control a filter, reverb, delay sweep, for example, or a punch-in. Can anyone confirm if degree of MIDI capability exists?

Also seems to have some routing potential. I'm also hoping to have independent processing for two channels, so both vocalists can route in, and be able to switch in and out of different presets for some effect. Any current users know if that's possible?

I guess given the lack of other options, I'll just have to try it...

Feels like I'm being demanding here, but I'm frankly really surprised this isn't just a given, in terms of availability. You'd have no problem doing any of this on desktop/laptop programs a decade ago...

On a side note, does anyone know of other musician forums with a good sized, active, mobile/iOS userbase? I'm really interested in seeing more of how other musicians are leveraging their tablets on stage.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:43 pm

MOK19 wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I'd looked at VocaLive earlier, and something about it put a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe it was their marketing, or sales strategy, I don't remember now. But on double-checking, I see that there is at least some MIDI capability... Preset switching is possible, I read, but I'm also looking for mapping discrete controls to a MIDI controller. Control a filter, reverb, delay sweep, for example, or a punch-in. Can anyone confirm if degree of MIDI capability exists?

Also seems to have some routing potential. I'm also hoping to have independent processing for two channels, so both vocalists can route in, and be able to switch in and out of different presets for some effect. Any current users know if that's possible?

I guess given the lack of other options, I'll just have to try it...

Feels like I'm being demanding here, but I'm frankly really surprised this isn't just a given, in terms of availability. You'd have no problem doing any of this on desktop/laptop programs a decade ago...

On a side note, does anyone know of other musician forums with a good sized, active, mobile/iOS userbase? I'm really interested in seeing more of how other musicians are leveraging their tablets on stage.

You've solved it for yourself - "You'd have no problem doing any of this on desktop/laptop programs a decade ago..." Its still very much that way now. Tablets are not, for some applications, replacements for laptops/desktops. Rather than hoping the world will change, youre better off using whats actually going to work., ie - desktop/laptop.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:50 pm

I hear ya. But this is for the stage, specifically, and for someone who's not strong with computers.

Personally, I'd be just fine bringing my trusty laptop in to handle it all like a boss. But this isn't for me, I'm 'managing' this transition for a friend who's not as literate with PC and music technology. I'm trying to use iOS as an approachable computer multitool for her band. I don't think I'm being too optimistic... But I guess, once again, we will see.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:52 pm

I know its not for you but its turning one complication (not wanting to use a laptop) into another (not going to be easy on ipad). Youll just have a complicated setup on an ipad that wont work as you want. Youre limited to apps that will work together. Not all will do that. A portastudio or similar would be better. Youre really looking at DAW territory. The closest on ipad is Auria :

http://auriaapp.com/Products/auria

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:09 pm

There's a gulf of difference in the complexity, user-friendliness, and learning curve between the two. When she got the iPad, she was using it competently within a day. And the apps, though much more limited in quality and capability, are very easy to use. She's using those now, too. It's also much more portable for gigs.

So while I agree that this is a bit of a substitution, and that a laptop blows away the iPad's apps' capabilities, there's a real difference in scale of complication. And yes, there are going to be problems to tackle. But trying to foist a laptop & DAW on her isn't gonna happen, not yet. I've tried teaching her cubase in the past, starting simple, with close guidance, and it was painstaking, and didn't stick. It's frankly a huge complexity, objectively.
But the iPad and apps are, so far, being adopted and understood. It'll get implemented in practice sessions soon, once she's comfortable.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:10 pm

MOK19 wrote:There's a gulf of difference in the complexity, user-friendliness, and learning curve between the two. When she got the iPad, she was using it competently within a day. And the apps, though much more limited in quality and capability, are very easy to use. She's using those now, too. It's also much more portable for gigs.

So while I agree that this is a bit of a substitution, and that a laptop blows away the iPad's apps' capabilities, there's a real difference in scale of complication. Trying to foist a laptop & DAW on her isn't gonna happen, not yet. I've tried teaching her cubase in the past, starting simple, with close guidance, and it was painstaking, and didn't stick. It's frankly a huge complexity, objectively.
But the iPad and apps are, so far, being adopted and understood. It'll get implemented in practice sessions soon, once she's comfortable.

You've already made your decision lol. Im not surprised that what you want is not possible on ipad. Its horses for courses. You may be able run up to four separate apps at once but thats pushing it, its just not meant for that. Auria is the closest youll get. Cubasis at a pinch. No point in trying to help any further.

wiggle.lights · Post by **wiggle.lights** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:12 pm

MOK19

Have you looked at the TC Helicon apps? I personally don't have either one, but they are known the their vocal FX hardware. From looking at their site, it doesn't look like they support midi cc right now, but the interface looks to be geared toward live operation.
Singaling is another very straight forward vocal FX. Again no midi cc, but very clear interface.

In terms of your routing and midi control needs, I'm thinking you would need to go toward an Audiobus/ala cart solution; presuming a stereo input sound card, R&L inputs could each have a separate lane, with different FX apps in each. And, for instance, all the AUFX apps have great midi cc mapping. There's even MiMix which is a mixing app to manage just this sort of setup. BUT, as you note she is a not the tweaky type and she would be alone with this rig, it could be more moving parts than advisable especially in a live situation. (I will say I think if the second input was ignored, and there was a single lane just for voice, this would be more manageable, as well as less taxing on the iPad)

I'll also throw out that I have seen numerous posts regarding issues with the Air2 - apparently there was a audio hardware change which has caused problems with some apps. I'd recommending checking here, product boards, the audiobus forum, etc, before sticking her with an app that freezes on the Air2!

I think if it was me, based on what's out there now, I'd take a look at VoiceJamStudio (there's a decent vid or two on youtube) . Maybe drop by their site and ask if they have plans to add midi.

Good luck!

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:45 pm

UltraJV, I appreciate your input a lot - this sort of critical conversation is very, very helpful, but the conversation's value is not predicated on whether or not I adopt your suggestions. This particular topic represents a tough balancing act though, for the precise point you highlighted. At what point is the iPad route a bad overall strategy, given our goals, and the individual? Hard to say. Returning or re-selling the gear is indeed an option, depending on how this shakes out. But there's a lot more testing we need to do before then...

I downloaded and started poking at VocaLive's free demo. Yikes. A look at IK Multimedia's in-app store reminded me why I had steered away from them. 5 bucks per individual effects unit! A few bucks more for midi capability... Etc. Deceptive, and absurd. Microtransactions gone awry, once again.

wiggle.lights, excellent info, Thank you! I'll get started sorting through each of those apps. I did set her up with an Air2. I'd heard a little bit about the complications, but I figured that since I was starting with a clean slate, I could simply choose between a small group of apps that were functioning properly. There seemed to be so many options at first, I didn't imagine there would be a problem finding one that does the job right. I haven't run into problems specific to the Air2 yet(to my knowledge), but I sure don't want the problems to show up on stage. The audiobus forum sounds like a decent means of proofreading the apps, so to speak.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:36 pm

As an update, I've cycled through a few apps, looking for one to check all the boxes, but still no luck.

Most recently I've tried out DFX, but had a bunch of issues with it and moved on. Wasn't a good fit overall, since it was more of a 'creative effects' unit, rather than set up like a vocal processor. Controls & options weren't geared toward getting good vocal results.

After that, I finally bought Vocalive, after a lot of hesitation. So far, it's... the least flawed. But still lacking a few key features, has a few bugs, a few design issues. No vocal distortion, can't tap in the tempo via midi, shallow midi control, only handles one signal, presets don't properly recall all the settings you'd dialed in. I don't know if it's being actively worked on so I gotta keep shopping.

Anyone have a suggestion for a vocalist-oriented app? Looking for MIDI-controllable parameters, distortion, tappable BPM. Or really, just any other strong options geared toward intuitive live vocal processing.

I've found this entire process pretty frustrating. In my mind, a vocalist using apps for themselves on stage is the big shining neon goal. It seems like a great fit for the iOS niche. I wouldn't have thought getting it implemented right would be such a quest.

Spiritos · Post by **Spiritos** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:26 pm

About the distortion: can't you use Audiobus to route it through an FX app?

Also about tge MIDI control. I'm not that involved with Lemur or TouchOSC but like you I can't imagine with modern tech it isn't possible. There are also apps like MIDI- Control / Flow with sophisticated routing options.

Maybe worth checking out Voicesynth. I know it's more of a vocoder/synth but maybe you can tweak the parameters to tour liking and/or use Audiobus again.

Need a good vocal app for control during performance