Yes - I've got all six. I will try to listen to them today and give you the final winners as soon as possibleCompyfox wrote:And if I'm not mistaken, all round 2 entries are accounted for now?
.
KVR MIX CHALLENGE - MC08 February 2015 - Winners announced
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 3 Nov, 2006 from Poland
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Will definitely look forward to it.
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 3 Nov, 2006 from Poland
After a listening session 
I'm proud to announce the winners of the KVR Mix Challenge MC08
The first place goes to:
Aditya.inHim
Second place goes to:
photonic
And the third goes to:
mkd
I listened to all the 2nd round mixes on my monitors and the headphones. I listened to them "raw" and through a simple mastering chain (Polysquasher and Elephant with a 0,5dB gain reduction). It wasn't easy to decide, because none of the mixes is ideal
. If it was a real mixing gig - we would work on it more. I think that metal parts would need rerecording of the guitars to sound better.
But none the less - the mix by In Him Production had the most pluses in my notes after the first listen. I love the overall sound, would love some more reverb in the intro/outro, a little bit more of the atmosphere. The guitars sounds the best for me of all the mixes, maybe a tad more of the bass.
Photonic made a real good mix too. I have a problem with the 1st metal part (the guitars sound very chopped), the solo guitar could be much more distorted and the metal guitars overall could use more work. But the bass is very (I mean VERY) good here and the whole mix feels really good. Great atmosphere and sound in the intro and the outro.
MKD in the third place is a surprise even for me. The metal parts are of course not the best here, but the originality and the boldness of it really appeals to me. But it's a dangerous way too, because if it was for someone else then me you could get some angry mails/calls for that mix. But the MKD's mix was popping out all the time on my shortlist and stayed there to the end.
Congrats for the winners and all the participants and thank you again for the opportunity - I learned a lot from this. THANK YOU!
I'm proud to announce the winners of the KVR Mix Challenge MC08 The first place goes to:
Aditya.inHim
Second place goes to:
photonic
And the third goes to:
mkd
I listened to all the 2nd round mixes on my monitors and the headphones. I listened to them "raw" and through a simple mastering chain (Polysquasher and Elephant with a 0,5dB gain reduction). It wasn't easy to decide, because none of the mixes is ideal
. If it was a real mixing gig - we would work on it more. I think that metal parts would need rerecording of the guitars to sound better. But none the less - the mix by In Him Production had the most pluses in my notes after the first listen. I love the overall sound, would love some more reverb in the intro/outro, a little bit more of the atmosphere. The guitars sounds the best for me of all the mixes, maybe a tad more of the bass.
Photonic made a real good mix too. I have a problem with the 1st metal part (the guitars sound very chopped), the solo guitar could be much more distorted and the metal guitars overall could use more work. But the bass is very (I mean VERY) good here and the whole mix feels really good. Great atmosphere and sound in the intro and the outro.
MKD in the third place is a surprise even for me
. The metal parts are of course not the best here, but the originality and the boldness of it really appeals to me. But it's a dangerous way too, because if it was for someone else then me you could get some angry mails/calls for that mix. But the MKD's mix was popping out all the time on my shortlist and stayed there to the end.Congrats for the winners
and all the participants and thank you again for the opportunity - I learned a lot from this. THANK YOU! -
- KVRian
- 628 posts since 5 Mar, 2011 from Austria
Congratulations to Aditya.inHim
for the first place!
An also mkd for the third place!
I am more than happy with my second place! Not bad for a keyboarder
I learned a lot from this competition and I have a few more nice amp simulation now in my PC to play with.
Thanx again for the detailed analysis. It feels good to read that the only problem are the metal guitars. That is ok for me, because this was a completely new matter to me.
I have to leave now for the whole weekend for a workshop. I will come back to this forum on sunday evening (CET), for picking my prize.
See you!
for the first place!
An also mkd for the third place!
I am more than happy with my second place! Not bad for a keyboarder
I learned a lot from this competition and I have a few more nice amp simulation now in my PC to play with.
Thanx again for the detailed analysis. It feels good to read that the only problem are the metal guitars. That is ok for me, because this was a completely new matter to me.
I have to leave now for the whole weekend for a workshop. I will come back to this forum on sunday evening (CET), for picking my prize.
See you!
soundcloud.com/photonic-1
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- KVRist
- 47 posts since 15 Sep, 2014
I will return my OneKnob plugin!!!!!! 
thank you for this nice mix challenge. I learned that metal guitars are a challenge for sure.
Congratulations to the winners!
thank you for this nice mix challenge. I learned that metal guitars are a challenge for sure.
Congratulations to the winners!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Uhm.... that... wow.
Okay, first of all, congratulations to the three winners. With this, the KVR Mix Challenge 08 has officially ended. I changed the thread title, and we can perform as usual (the winners can pick their price, then those can get in touch with us and we'll handle the licenses).
But let me also direct some (hopefully) constructive criticism, as I am really surprised by the results.
Should you revive this track, the Mellotron definitely needs an overhaul. It was the hardest thing for me to fit in the mix as it never really "belonged". Either it drowned out in the mix, or it was too strong. I would have used different strings, or "more" (double tracked ones for example).
But else, the production was overall great to work with. A lot of creative ideas came to the surface in this challenge. Though I think this was the ultimate problem with this particular challenge, as it introduced a lot of variation - and I personally always had the impression, that what I mixed, was not right (I asked rock guitarists, and they told me "you're there - but for a 100% mix, you need to live and breathe that genre").
And then, the results came in:
The top-6 (Round 2) pretty all had similar ideas regarding the metal drums (click heavy kick, aggressive snare). Though I kind of miss the overall balance of this mix. It's lacking the so called "lowend". And it's drowning too much in reverb, which is taking away the general focus.
As if you listen to a metal concert, in an empty orchestra chamber.
Distortion is always a matter of taste. So I can't give any feedback on that end. If it's not enough, then maybe drive the signal a tad more into the clean amp's distortion channel. It sure is different compared to all other productions. Now the metal part on the other hand is interesting, yet also(!) lacks low end. Again, "clicky" kit, but I don't "feel" it. It's also a bit reverb heavy.
Overall the sound of the production is really upper mid heavy. As if there was a tilt EQ used and raised everything past 1kHz at random places. Now don't get me wrong, a suitable mastering can get something of that back. But then the shred guitars are definitely too (upper) mid heavy.
The drums are not clear (as used to from a modern metal production). For example, I barely hear any overheads (ride, hihat), the kick is more like a 80ies rock mix, and it generally sounds as if the recording was a bootleg, done "outside of a training room".
I also can't agree with using a pitch shifter (heavy chorus?) on the shred guitars. The ambient effects around the 1 minute mark are also too distracting, as if you're on some sort of drug induced trip. Though I do understand why you might like it. Overall I would have not gone for this mix. But definitely points for being bold and trying it (which is what the Mix Challenge is all about: experience).
I then thought "maybe you funked up somewhere, Fox". So I listened to all Round 2 entries, also to see how this round generally performed.
MixedMind:
Has some interestng ideas on the the guitar FX usage, also on the "more tamed" guitars (less distortion, therefore less "sustain", sounds more "plucky" for the solo guitar). But even here the overall production is drenched in reverb. The drums are not clear to me. But I do like the shred guitars. They fit really well to this particular mix. Overall, too much reverb in this mix. The focus is lost at some point.
Nine of Kings:
Well, this one is interesting. He was our first MC "client" and he provided us a pop-ish/rock track. So I know that he plays guitars. His concept is also aiming at more focus on the solo guitar, the bass and the drumset. But if I understand you right (szalonykp), then this mix was also "too tame" and "too proper". I would have loved to see less distortion on the "clean guitars" (sides) and a bit more on the solo guitar. But I like the general feel. Then again, even here a bit reverb heavy, and what lacks Photonic's track in terms of lowend, is missing here. The overall mix is really low-mid heavy.
Compyfox:
Well - all I can say is that my mix might sound a bit too "pop" oriented, which I can agree on that this might be a turn-off for "metal heads". It's not dirty (even though I really tried to rough it up!), it's not drenched in reverb and modulation. Though I should have listened to the other tracks after the Round 2 announcement (then again everything would have sounded the same and that is also not the case in a "real scenario"). But my personal focus was definitely the solo guitar, the bass and the overall sound of the drumset (which we all tried to pull off right).
What kind of irks me the most here, is the work I put into it in terms of shaping the guitar sound, creating fake "doubles" for the shred guitars for Round 2 (which really added a lot compared to my first mix), I sat down for hours to add subtle modulation, movement with reverb. I should have been more bold with Warmverb and the trancegate reverbs. But in retrospect, I love this mix, I am proud of it. Even if it's lacking reverb (according to the client) - it moves me, even though the second half of the track get's a bit boring due to it's repetition and sometimes unclear shred guiar usage. Though I think an ME would love it since IMO there is barely anything that needs to be altered in the end (except for the low mids with M/S editing).
So what's the summary?
But personally, I am kind of disappointed to hear the three winning mixes going so far "away" form the provided source material (which was fairly clean as well) in terms of both mix and effect usage. That tells me to have "better luck next time".
Okay, first of all, congratulations to the three winners. With this, the KVR Mix Challenge 08 has officially ended. I changed the thread title, and we can perform as usual (the winners can pick their price, then those can get in touch with us and we'll handle the licenses).
But let me also direct some (hopefully) constructive criticism, as I am really surprised by the results.
I can agree that the so called "shred" guitars might need an overhaul, or an official double track. They were sometimes really offbeat. Also maybe something complementing was needed to be added in the later section of the song (the 1 minute after the second shred part, the second ambient part), as I personally felt "something is missing", but I couldn't compensate that with creative FX usage.szalonykp wrote:I listened to all the 2nd round mixes on my monitors and the headphones. I listened to them "raw" and through a simple mastering chain (Polysquasher and Elephant with a 0,5dB gain reduction). It wasn't easy to decide, because none of the mixes is ideal
Should you revive this track, the Mellotron definitely needs an overhaul. It was the hardest thing for me to fit in the mix as it never really "belonged". Either it drowned out in the mix, or it was too strong. I would have used different strings, or "more" (double tracked ones for example).
But else, the production was overall great to work with. A lot of creative ideas came to the surface in this challenge. Though I think this was the ultimate problem with this particular challenge, as it introduced a lot of variation - and I personally always had the impression, that what I mixed, was not right (I asked rock guitarists, and they told me "you're there - but for a 100% mix, you need to live and breathe that genre").
And then, the results came in:
I can agree that the "reverb" in the ambient guitars are really interesting, though for my tastes as AE, a bit too much. The shred guitars for example "drown" in the reverb, the bass is barely noticeable, and this is (in my opinion) the foundation of the track. Or the backbone so to speak.szalonykp wrote:But none the less - the mix by In Him Production had the most pluses in my notes after the first listen. I love the overall sound, would love some more reverb in the intro/outro, a little bit more of the atmosphere. The guitars sounds the best for me of all the mixes, maybe a tad more of the bass.
The top-6 (Round 2) pretty all had similar ideas regarding the metal drums (click heavy kick, aggressive snare). Though I kind of miss the overall balance of this mix. It's lacking the so called "lowend". And it's drowning too much in reverb, which is taking away the general focus.
As if you listen to a metal concert, in an empty orchestra chamber.
Yes, even here the modulation effects are interesting. But a couple of things that really stood out to me. For example the "solo" guitar in the ambient part vanishes too much. It should have focus, tell a story. It drowns in the "side" arpeggio guitars. The "mellotron" on the other hand at the beginning (something you told me to lower in volume), is sticking too much out. It's a complimentary instrument, IMO.szalonykp wrote:Photonic made a real good mix too. I have a problem with the 1st metal part (the guitars sound very chopped), the solo guitar could be much more distorted and the metal guitars overall could use more work. But the bass is very (I mean VERY) good here and the whole mix feels really good. Great atmosphere and sound in the intro and the outro.
Distortion is always a matter of taste. So I can't give any feedback on that end. If it's not enough, then maybe drive the signal a tad more into the clean amp's distortion channel. It sure is different compared to all other productions. Now the metal part on the other hand is interesting, yet also(!) lacks low end. Again, "clicky" kit, but I don't "feel" it. It's also a bit reverb heavy.
Overall the sound of the production is really upper mid heavy. As if there was a tilt EQ used and raised everything past 1kHz at random places. Now don't get me wrong, a suitable mastering can get something of that back. But then the shred guitars are definitely too (upper) mid heavy.
Here I really don't get why. This comment sounds to me like a "pity place", though you were impressed by the creative usage of certain effects (reverb mainly), which is the main reason it got third place. Else this track pretty much lacks everything IMO - so I understand the "angry calls" comment. As participant myself, this gives me really mixed feelings.szalonykp wrote:MKD in the third place is a surprise even for me
The drums are not clear (as used to from a modern metal production). For example, I barely hear any overheads (ride, hihat), the kick is more like a 80ies rock mix, and it generally sounds as if the recording was a bootleg, done "outside of a training room".
I also can't agree with using a pitch shifter (heavy chorus?) on the shred guitars. The ambient effects around the 1 minute mark are also too distracting, as if you're on some sort of drug induced trip. Though I do understand why you might like it. Overall I would have not gone for this mix. But definitely points for being bold and trying it (which is what the Mix Challenge is all about: experience).
I then thought "maybe you funked up somewhere, Fox". So I listened to all Round 2 entries, also to see how this round generally performed.
MixedMind:
Has some interestng ideas on the the guitar FX usage, also on the "more tamed" guitars (less distortion, therefore less "sustain", sounds more "plucky" for the solo guitar). But even here the overall production is drenched in reverb. The drums are not clear to me. But I do like the shred guitars. They fit really well to this particular mix. Overall, too much reverb in this mix. The focus is lost at some point.
Nine of Kings:
Well, this one is interesting. He was our first MC "client" and he provided us a pop-ish/rock track. So I know that he plays guitars. His concept is also aiming at more focus on the solo guitar, the bass and the drumset. But if I understand you right (szalonykp), then this mix was also "too tame" and "too proper". I would have loved to see less distortion on the "clean guitars" (sides) and a bit more on the solo guitar. But I like the general feel. Then again, even here a bit reverb heavy, and what lacks Photonic's track in terms of lowend, is missing here. The overall mix is really low-mid heavy.
Compyfox:
Well - all I can say is that my mix might sound a bit too "pop" oriented, which I can agree on that this might be a turn-off for "metal heads". It's not dirty (even though I really tried to rough it up!), it's not drenched in reverb and modulation. Though I should have listened to the other tracks after the Round 2 announcement (then again everything would have sounded the same and that is also not the case in a "real scenario"). But my personal focus was definitely the solo guitar, the bass and the overall sound of the drumset (which we all tried to pull off right).
What kind of irks me the most here, is the work I put into it in terms of shaping the guitar sound, creating fake "doubles" for the shred guitars for Round 2 (which really added a lot compared to my first mix), I sat down for hours to add subtle modulation, movement with reverb. I should have been more bold with Warmverb and the trancegate reverbs. But in retrospect, I love this mix, I am proud of it. Even if it's lacking reverb (according to the client) - it moves me, even though the second half of the track get's a bit boring due to it's repetition and sometimes unclear shred guiar usage. Though I think an ME would love it since IMO there is barely anything that needs to be altered in the end (except for the low mids with M/S editing).
So what's the summary?
Definitely a congratulation to everyone. You're all winners if you could pick up something from the challenge.szalonykp wrote:Congrats for the winners
But personally, I am kind of disappointed to hear the three winning mixes going so far "away" form the provided source material (which was fairly clean as well) in terms of both mix and effect usage. That tells me to have "better luck next time".
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- KVRist
- 47 posts since 15 Sep, 2014
I think I get what you mean by lost focus, Compyfox. I wondered if it's Ableton with its wacky PDC ...
I agree more or less with the rest .
I agree more or less with the rest .
Last edited by mixedmind on Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1793 posts since 9 Apr, 2011
Congrats to the winners!
I agree that my track is low-mid heavy. I tend to mix that way because it sounds punchy, and similar to live sound in a room. Then, during pre-mastering/mastering I add highs and a bump around 3kHz, although since that's outside the scope of the challenge I left the raw mix. Overall, I think what I got out of this challenge was the improvement from mix1 to mix2 after taking szalonykp's suggestions; that advice is pretty applicable to most of my mixes.
I agree that my track is low-mid heavy. I tend to mix that way because it sounds punchy, and similar to live sound in a room. Then, during pre-mastering/mastering I add highs and a bump around 3kHz, although since that's outside the scope of the challenge I left the raw mix. Overall, I think what I got out of this challenge was the improvement from mix1 to mix2 after taking szalonykp's suggestions; that advice is pretty applicable to most of my mixes.
Last edited by nineofkings on Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"musician."
http://soundcloud.com/nine-of-kings
http://soundcloud.com/nine-of-kings
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- KVRist
- 233 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Indonesia
Wowwww! Praise the lord!!! This is a big surprise, and I am very happy nowwwww! Speechless... Thank you for kvraudio, szalonykp as song provider.. Compyfox, uncle e, and other participants that have a very good taste in mixing.
God bless you all!!!
God bless you all!!!
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- KVRist
- 233 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Indonesia
Thank you all..
To compyfox, with all due respect, thank you for your comment and correction.. And very sorry if my mix dissapoint you and not fit with your taste.. I just try to give my best to translate what the song provider want with all my limitations.. In the next challenge, not only the song provider, but I hope my mix can pleasing you too my friend..
Over that all, I love your mix..
And talking about mixing, it is always talking about art, taste, and very subjective.. I am not better than 20 more others..
Even now, I didn't know why I choosen at 1st place.. Haha. So I very welcome for the correction from others..
Thank you so much..
Sorry for my bad english
God bless
To compyfox, with all due respect, thank you for your comment and correction.. And very sorry if my mix dissapoint you and not fit with your taste.. I just try to give my best to translate what the song provider want with all my limitations.. In the next challenge, not only the song provider, but I hope my mix can pleasing you too my friend..
Over that all, I love your mix..
And talking about mixing, it is always talking about art, taste, and very subjective.. I am not better than 20 more others..
Even now, I didn't know why I choosen at 1st place.. Haha. So I very welcome for the correction from others..
Thank you so much..
Sorry for my bad english
God bless
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 3 Nov, 2006 from Poland
Sorry for thatCompyfox wrote: But let me also direct some (hopefully) constructive criticism, as I am really surprised by the results.
. Agree with thatCompyfox wrote: I can agree that the so called "shred" guitars might need an overhaul, or an official double track. They were sometimes really offbeat. Also maybe something complementing was needed to be added in the later section of the song (the 1 minute after the second shred part, the second ambient part), as I personally felt "something is missing", but I couldn't compensate that with creative FX usage.
.As for the rest of your post... Sorry that you feel the way you feel
.I think you have to remember that the artist looks a little bit different at the song then the mixing engineer. I want it to evoke emotions and make the message of the track stronger. That's what is the most important for me. Not the "well mixed bass" or "balanced high end" - if it's not connecting with the song at the emotional level it's not a good mix for me. And I mean "my" emotions and "my" message - that's the right of the maker of the track.
In the first round I listened to the tracks separately, comparing them to my references. And it was more about the lowend, about stereo panorama and so on. I didn't compare them one to another. In the second round I choose the best of the six. I listened to them separately, but also compared them. I was marking in my notes every time I felt an emotion, an adrenaline rush - every time I felt "wow! that's great!".
And I have some personal preferences too - I wrote many, many, many times that I like everything washed in reverb, I like tape-delays, I like tape-warble, modulation. That I need a psychedelic ambiance. You say that the other mixes have too much of that - I don't feel that way. I feel that you didn't add these things enough in your mix. I understand that is not in your style, but I asked for it - and you didn't deliver. And it cannot be held against the other mixes - that's what I wanted.
Sometimes if something is very well balanced it's not expressive enough. I like more a flawed mix that feel expressive and full of power and emotions then a very well balanced mix that lacks life and expression. Sorry. You wanted me to choose the best mixes from the artist perspective - I did that. If it was a contest about for example mixing the bottom-end - the results could be very different. But it was about the track as a whole - and I know what I liked and what I didn't like.
As for MKD - I really, really tried to keep his mix out of 2nd round
. I was not able to do that - it was really sticking out in a good way for me. I marked it in the beginning of the listening of the 2nd round's six mixes as the one that for sure won't be in the final three. And now it's on the third place. So - the mix fought for itself. I understand that you feel that you mixed it better than MKD, but the boldness and the atmosphere was really, really good. I really, really liked it. And I stand 100% behind that decision.-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
I think this sums it up well. This is all about art, taste and subjective opinion.Aditya.inHim wrote:And talking about mixing, it is always talking about art, taste, and very subjective.. I am not better than 20 more others..
In the end, the customer is ultimately king. And to the customer, I as AE messed up. I have to live with that, even if I'm (currently/understandably) massively disappointed - that's just part of the game.
EDIT 09-03-2015:
Edited half of the entry to redirect the focus to questions and overall feedback regarding the challenge.
Last edited by Compyfox on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 624 posts since 30 Aug, 2012
I don't mean to sound like a d$ck but 20 different people besides yourself have now mixed these tracks - including a second round of revisions tweaked per your comments - and you're still not happy.szalonykp wrote: It wasn't easy to decide, because none of the mixes is ideal
Perhaps you need to revisit the song itself, your raw tracks, arrangement and/or monitoring equipment and environment.
Many of the "issues" you note in the various replies and critiques I do not hear on my mastering setup.
Congrats to the winners. This was a tough one.
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 3 Nov, 2006 from Poland
I've said that myself - the track needs a revisit.Fender19 wrote:I don't mean to sound like a d$ck but 20 different people besides yourself have now mixed these tracks - including a second round of revisions tweaked per your comments - and you're still not happy.szalonykp wrote: It wasn't easy to decide, because none of the mixes is ideal
Perhaps you need to revisit the song itself, your raw tracks, arrangement and/or monitoring equipment and environment.
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- KVRian
- 853 posts since 3 Nov, 2006 from Poland
I'm sorry Compyfox that you feel wronged. And to all other participants that feel the same - I apologize.
I think that you maybe should change the Challenge rules to make sure the outcome of the competition will be more as you want it to. Or make the organizers to pick winners.
And of course to make it obligatory that the song provider is happy with the final mixes.
Over and out.
I think that you maybe should change the Challenge rules to make sure the outcome of the competition will be more as you want it to. Or make the organizers to pick winners.
And of course to make it obligatory that the song provider is happy with the final mixes
.Over and out.
