KVR Audio

Shiosan · Post by **Shiosan** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:27 pm

I posted a forum about getting only one VST synth and which is the best.

Just so you know, I am quite beginner at using synthesizers, especially VST- I used REs before migrating to VST.

I've been testing several synthesizers and I liked both Khs ONE and Xfer Serum. Very different synthesis, but both sounded great. I was comfortable using ONE, as it was pretty simple VA synth. Light CPU usage too.

Using Serum wasn't too difficult either, as I used some wavetable synth from Reason (Malstrom) so at least I had some idea. However, I've been trying to get some warm sound for progressive house and deep house from Serum but I seem to struggle quite a lot. I've looked youtube tutorials and all but everything seemed to sound very bright and crisp.

I know that I haven't got too much knowledge or skill to use wavetable yet, but is this crisp sound a character of wavetable synthesis?

Astralp · Post by **Astralp** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:22 pm

It is quite typical with Wavetable synths you need to tame them with filters to get more warmth, plus some sort of saturation/drive also helps. I don't own Serum yet, but I would suggest you try out Dune 2 if you are after wavetable and warmth as it also has VA Oscillators and some good filters. You might find it easier to achieve warmth with it.

Greg Houston · Post by **Greg Houston** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:31 pm

See if this soundset sounds warm enough for you. If so, here are some tips.

https://soundcloud.com/fabled-audio/mag ... ndset-demo

Adding subtle modulation is the key to breaking up the crisp lines and instead of using perfect triangles for instance to modulate with, draw 2 or 3 curvy triangles to use instead. Also put the random OSCs found in the GLOBAL tab to use. Just slow them down so you get something more subtle.

CURVE TRI 01 [GH].png

CURVE TRI 03 [GH].png

Parameters to modulate:

- OSC levels, AMP level. Create a little movement in the gain.
- Fine tune. Create movement in the tuning. This can be really subtle and slow or outright vibrato. You can also modulate this very subtly with NoteOn Rand.
- OSC phase
- Filter cutoff frequency
- Filter drive
- EQ high frequency
- Pan, create a little movement in the stereo image. Again, this can be really subtle, just 1-5% off center even.
- Use the pan (not exactly a pan) on the main filter. I tend to try something between 51-54%.

Other:

- Start with the MG Low 24 filter as the default. Switch it out for something else when you want something specifically different.
- Avoid noisy looking wavetables.
- You can smoothen out wavetables with annoying high frequency buzzs and the like with an FFT low pass formula, e.g., z=q>64?0:in or z=q>48?0:in or z=q>32?0:in, etc.
- Use the portamento when suitable.
- Avoid the Hyper FX. It is inherently edgy. The Dimension FX however is smooth when you leave the size at 0 and just adust the mix.
- Play with the softclip distortion.
- Don't get carried away with the reverb. It is metallic sounding.
- Add a touch of chorus, not enough so you can tell chorus is applied, but just a subtle softening.
- Add a touch of phaser, not enough to actually hear it, but to just add another dimension of subtle movement.
- Add some noise such as AC hum2 but again, not quite loud enough to actually hear it.
- In general don't use less than 2ms of attack on ENV 1.
- Use a fast attack and slow release on the compressor to smoothen things.
- Cut particularly harsh frequencies with the EQ.

This isn't exhaustive by any means, but should give you a sense of the sort of things you can do.

Greg Houston · Post by **Greg Houston** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:01 pm

Ultimately though, warm definitely isn't easy with Serum. One of the trade-offs though is that playing with high-frequency harmonic detail is. We've been so accustomed to cutting out the high frequencies or just filling them with noise (hi-hats and such) that actually intentionally shaping them hasn't probably got as much attention as it now can that we are able to generate content in this range without aliasing. There isn't anything particular fancy going on here, but note the harmonic range on this patch I made a couple days ago.

https://soundcloud.com/fabled-audio/amb ... -for-serum

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:51 pm

With Serum I found it's very tied to the type of filter you use. Some are pretty stiff and sterile. However, the French and German LPs are really good at getting a bit of warmth in the sound.

One thing I might recommend it take a look at Codex. It's a simpler wavetable synth than Serum, and they kind of take care of the "warmth" for you. The good news is because of that it tends to sound like a piece of vintage gear, or at least a wavetable synth going though analog oscillators. The bad news is you're stuck with that sound. For the most part I consider it very good though. Easy and fast to worth with and it comes with a nice complement of presets. I tend to not like Serum's presets, though they're easily tweakable and it's UI does make it easy to roll your own once you know what you're doing.

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:09 am

Shiosan wrote:I posted a forum about getting only one VST synth and which is the best.
...
I know that I haven't got too much knowledge or skill to use wavetable yet, but is this crisp sound a character of wavetable synthesis?

I'd like to think that it has more to do with the way the synth is implemented (high over sampling by default). I can only think of one other synth that has the same degree of crispness, and that is Diversion.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:51 am

You can also try Zebra

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:56 am

Wavetables tend to be rich in certain harmonics, some of them often can be more prominent than in saw waveforms. The way to deal with them is LP filter. Another sidestep is FM mode in Serum, which generates symmetric spectrum instead of LP spectrum typical for substractive synthesis.

In general I found myself playing very low notes in WT for that reason, also using smoother wavetables with low harmonics.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:04 am

pdxindy wrote:You can also try Zebra

This.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:13 am

For those who don't like the basic sound of Serum there are lots of other choices for wavetable synths lik e.g. Waldorf Largo, Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V, Waldorf Nave PC/Mac plugin (currently in Beta), PPG Wavemapper 2, PPG Wavegenerator, Synapse Audio DUNE 2, Waves Codex, Synthmaster 2.6, U-He Zebra 2 and others.

From those e.g. Waves Codex has a more "analog like" and/or "warm" sound character so it is not difficult to get such sounds there (which does not mean it is not possible with the other synths i mentioned).

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I own all synths i mentioned above (+ a Blofeld hardware synth) except Zebra 2 which i sold a few years ago.
Also d not own Serum yet while i checked the demo several times.

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While other wavetable synths are more versatile my "go to" wavetable synth is still PPG Wave 3.V (includes 130+ wavetables, all from Wolfgang Palm and most of them not included in other Waldorf synths). For many sounds that are not possible to be created from scratch with PPG 3.V i used the sample playback feature (as WAV files) to import those sounds (those sample were created from patches i created in other synths and/or using the Lector vocoder to create new unusual sounds). My commercial bank (and in a smaller amount also with my factory and my free bank) includes a lot of samples with sounds that are usually not possible or difficult to create with that synth.
The filter, the aliasing features/emulations (TruePPG modes), the unison (e.g. QUAD mode), Stereo spread (BASIS knob), the Arpeggiator and the effects in PPG Wave 3.V add their own character to those samples (most of the samples i used are sustained and looped without specific attack and decay parts included while a few are "percussive" without sustain and you could also use simple single cycle waveforms instead of longer samples). The Unison voices could be also detuned in semitones to get interesting results that sound like using many oscillators.
Using multisamples (up to 8 ) is possible when using a multi program with all 8 multi parts.
Of course the muli programs could be also used to layer and/or split multiple patches based on internal wavetables and/or samples (for each part midi channels, key zones, audio outputs and other parameters could be adjusted).
Such multi programs could be saved as *.fxb bank files where that bank usually only includes the patches needed for the multi program and the rest of the bank is filled with init patches.

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At the moment i am mostly involved with the Nave PC/Mac Beta (was/is alraedy available for iOS/iPad) which has a great basic sound (IMO) and lots of features.
Nave additionally to the two wavetable oscillators also includes a dedicated VA oscillator with Saw, Triangle, variable Pulse (+ Square) and Noise. For this also a "Überwave" feature could be activated that is simlar to a Supersaw but works for all VA waveforms. Additionally there is also a global unison that works for all oscillators.
Opposing to Largo Nave does not include Osc Sync or Fm but in the mixer you could add two Ringmodulation sound sources (one between the two wavetable Oscs and one between one wavetable Osc and the VA oscillator).
With the "Spectrum" feature in the wavetable oscillators you could drastically change the harmonic content of an existing wavetable (or the current waveform in the wavetable to be precise) and this feature could be also modulated. A comparable feature is also included with the oscillator sections of Waves Codex.

The character of the Nave filters seems to be more "analog" than e.g. those in Largo (while the Largo filters sound great too and include the Waldorf Comb filters) and you could really "push" them with the aditional Drive modes. PPG Wave 3.V includes an emulation of the analog filter in the original PPG Wave 2.x hardware synths.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:41 pm

As i own many wavetable synths and have owned some more in the past (both hard- and software) one important point is taht there is no wvetable synth that fully "replaces" all others.

All of those have their own sound character and feature sets and a very obvious difference is the wavetables that are included which of course could make a HUGE difference in the resulting sound.

Creating a great sounding wavetable from scratch (without e.g. importing a sample) seems to be more dificult than some people expect, especially wavetables that sound great when sweeping through the whole table.
In worst case the wavetable will sound like what i would call "digital noise" which happens when the partials/harmonics of waveforms that are close in the wavetable are too much different.

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Codex, I think Waves could have integrated some of the traditional oscillators in Element and made a much more complete product, IMHO. I think they just took all of the Element code and switched out the oscillator section in Codex and charged users another 200 dollars for it. I like the interface, though.

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:18 pm

Ingonator wrote:
Creating a great sounding wavetable from scratch (without e.g. importing a sample) seems to be more dificult than some people expect, especially wavetables that sound great when sweeping through the whole table.

Too true. It's more an art than a science, which Waldorf has down to a tee. Another reason why not all wavetable synths are created "equal."

Vectorman · Post by **Vectorman** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:06 pm

To me it's often more about the raw material - the actual wavetables and what indexes within them you choose to incorporate into a sweep - than anything else. If you use the PPG wavetables (for example) in other synths like Zebra or Dune2, you can get very PPG-like sounds (albeit with less pitch transposition artifacts) just on the strength of having the right tables. One of my favorite PPG sounds, sort of a soft, ethereal patch, is solely based on sweeping through a certain area of the "Electric Piano" wavetable and doesn't use filtering at all - it relies totally on the harmonic content of the waveforms.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:11 pm

Wavetable synthesis is indeed an art. GIGO but now always. If what you're starting with is crap, you can still get something good out of it. It's just harder than if you were to start with a wavetable that was smooth and flowed from beginning to end. Creating these wavetables is where the art comes in.

When I made my Serum set I tried to mix things up between crazy and traditional. It can be done with any wavetable synth and you can get very warm sounds out of them, but it's a hell of a lot of work. You can't just throw things in a blender and expect to make a perfect milk shake.

Next to modular synthesis, wavetable synthesis is my favorite because it is so open ended relative to other kinds of synthesis, which by their definition are somewhat limited.

I only have a couple of Wavetable synths but Serum is by far my favorite.

Character of wavetable synthesis