The power of FM synths (Blue2/Nemesis/Octopus/FM8)
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1140 posts since 2 Feb, 2005
Hi All,
Whenever I hear the word FM, I immediate associate with DX7 plus the FM Tines sounds. It used all over 80-90s' so that's why .... However, in the recent years, I started to play with the soft FM synths and I couldn't dig out the whole power of them. All my findings were when Op-A "FMs" Op-B and the sound of Op-B becomes harsh or distort. Hardly made any FM tines sounds and needless to say about the FM piano type of sound.
I also couldn't find a decent FM Tines type patches in the above mentioned synths so I couldn't reference to them to make something similar. However, op-x pro-ii have some of the nice FM piano simulation patches. Anyone tells me how could you dig out the power of a FM synths instead of just creating FM tines/FM bass ? Is making lush / sweeeepy pad possible with a FM synth ?
Regards!
Cowby
Whenever I hear the word FM, I immediate associate with DX7 plus the FM Tines sounds. It used all over 80-90s' so that's why .... However, in the recent years, I started to play with the soft FM synths and I couldn't dig out the whole power of them. All my findings were when Op-A "FMs" Op-B and the sound of Op-B becomes harsh or distort. Hardly made any FM tines sounds and needless to say about the FM piano type of sound.
I also couldn't find a decent FM Tines type patches in the above mentioned synths so I couldn't reference to them to make something similar. However, op-x pro-ii have some of the nice FM piano simulation patches. Anyone tells me how could you dig out the power of a FM synths instead of just creating FM tines/FM bass ? Is making lush / sweeeepy pad possible with a FM synth ?
Regards!
Cowby
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- KVRian
- 702 posts since 19 Mar, 2014 from Denver, CO
It's not just the modulation of operator A into B, you need to get a ratio that works for you as well. Depending on the softie you're using, you can then use envelopes to soften the modulation and different operator wavforms, if available will have different effects on Op B. And while you can do soft without a filter, a filter at the end of the chain can help you with the softness. Modulation options obviously help with the sweeping.
Basically, you (as well as I) need to learn what the typical FM operator/ratio changes do. Best way is youtube, the Chowning book on FM (specifically for DX7 but applies to FM in general) and just practicing from scratch.
Basically, you (as well as I) need to learn what the typical FM operator/ratio changes do. Best way is youtube, the Chowning book on FM (specifically for DX7 but applies to FM in general) and just practicing from scratch.
- KVRAF
- 3049 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany
Keep in mind that the mentioned FM power synth's are not pure FM synth's.
They also have some filters which should enabled them to make nice pads and other non typical FM sounds.
They also have some filters which should enabled them to make nice pads and other non typical FM sounds.
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- KVRist
- 289 posts since 11 Sep, 2004 from just a little to the left
I find that any basic carrier-modulator pair has a tendency to produce the " FM tine" when you use sine waves and some ratio higher that 1:4. It's a sound that is very distinct, but gets old pretty quickly because it is so identifiable. If you add another modulator, the sounds that are produced tend to sound a bit more "wavetable-ish" (if that's a word), and with the right envelopes, produce the typical FM basses that have that particular "bite" that the DX7 bass sounds were known for.
For lush sounds, I recommend adding more independent carrier-mod pairs, with some subtle detuning. If you can modulate one of the pairs with a pitch LFO ( affecting both carrier and modulator frequency), you can get some lovely, rich beat frequencies out of an FM synth. LinPlug's octopus has some nice options in that regard, but there are plenty of options on most of your mentions. Filters are always nice to have, for some more predictable timbre shaping.
HTH,
STV
For lush sounds, I recommend adding more independent carrier-mod pairs, with some subtle detuning. If you can modulate one of the pairs with a pitch LFO ( affecting both carrier and modulator frequency), you can get some lovely, rich beat frequencies out of an FM synth. LinPlug's octopus has some nice options in that regard, but there are plenty of options on most of your mentions. Filters are always nice to have, for some more predictable timbre shaping.
HTH,
STV
- KVRAF
- 25852 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
- KVRAF
- 2289 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands
Absolutely. Listen to the Rush album 'Power Windows', it has DX7 pads and strings all over itcowby wrote:Is making lush / sweeeepy pad possible with a FM synth ?
Examples: the background stringpad in 'Manhattan Project' and the intro of 'Territories'.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.
Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket
Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1140 posts since 2 Feb, 2005
that's what the forum for - knowledge sharing !
BTW, which FM synths (Paid version) you guys like most and Why ?
My ranking is Blue2 -> FM8 -> Nemesis -> Octopus. Where Blue2 will make me spend the whole afternoon sitting next to the computer to do the programming.
BTW, which FM synths (Paid version) you guys like most and Why ?
My ranking is Blue2 -> FM8 -> Nemesis -> Octopus. Where Blue2 will make me spend the whole afternoon sitting next to the computer to do the programming.
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Mister Natural Mister Natural https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=164174
- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 28 Oct, 2007 from michigan
HUGE fan of Ableton Operator - dunno how it compares to Dune or any of the others
pads - oh yes, basses - out of this world, lead lines - that can rip your face off
with regard to FM "tines", yeah it can be done . . . but why . . . ?
pads - oh yes, basses - out of this world, lead lines - that can rip your face off
with regard to FM "tines", yeah it can be done . . . but why . . . ?
expert only on what it feels like to be me
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
https://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1/tracks
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- KVRAF
- 8802 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
Love the FM8 and I miss it so much (but soon I will buy it again). The nicest interface with many additional features/effects. The arpeggio is from the best out there. Fantastic synth for many kinds of sounds
Dexed is also great (I would buy it if it was commercial). It is like having a real DX7 for me! Hard to program especially for pads, but it has its own difficult to predict character!
I also like Operator in Live. It is 4 OPs but it is really a very nice synth both in how it sounds and how nice to program it.
Those three above are my favourites but I haven't played much with others.
I also should mention IL Sytrus. This one is a monster but you need falcon eyes to work with it
Dexed is also great (I would buy it if it was commercial). It is like having a real DX7 for me! Hard to program especially for pads, but it has its own difficult to predict character!
I also like Operator in Live. It is 4 OPs but it is really a very nice synth both in how it sounds and how nice to program it.
Those three above are my favourites but I haven't played much with others.
I also should mention IL Sytrus. This one is a monster but you need falcon eyes to work with it
- KVRAF
- 2545 posts since 15 Jan, 2013 from L'Écosse
I have all of the above and Sytrus gets my vote as well, but be prepared to work with a scanning electron microscope.
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- KVRian
- 702 posts since 19 Mar, 2014 from Denver, CO
Love FM8. Haven't tried the others you mentioned. Operator is actually pretty good. Not as functional as FM8, but still solid. Also have Sytrus, but haven't used it in ages.
Just picked up a TG77, so odds are I won't be using much software for FM anymore.
Just picked up a TG77, so odds are I won't be using much software for FM anymore.
- KVRAF
- 1821 posts since 26 Nov, 2005 from Where silence and chaos meet.
Brian Eno....cowby wrote:Is making lush / sweeeepy pad possible with a FM synth ?
Regards!
Cowby
It's not what you use, it's how you use it...