KVR Audio

mojomontana · Post by **mojomontana** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:22 pm

Hello,

I love both of the above but.. I'm a guitar player and an electronic music producer and would love to see a version of either but with more options and things to tweak.
I really like the sound of the pre-amps when i run all sorts of things through them i.e. vocal, dirty bass line, synths etc, they can really give a song the extra edge it needs.
The only trouble being that a lot of the fx and amps etc have very limited tweaking ability's, obviously because they are made for guitar and bass.
What i'd love to see is a version specifically made with electronic musicians in mind, with a multitude of extra nobs, sliders and all manner of extra options that would give me the more extreme options i need to really get into the sound as i need to do when making a right old racket.

what do you think? and are there any extra options you would like to see?

Cheers

Me

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Have you tried using Guitar Rig's modulators (LFO, sequencer, envelope, etc.) to modulate parameters? Between that and setting up multiple a/b mixers and Control Room speaker/mic combos you can get a whole lot of crazy sounds.

What you see as "limited tweaking ability" is kind of the point of Guitar Rig, IMO - it's emulating specific gear that has a characteristic sound and limited options. I find the Rat, TubeScreamer, Big Muff, Memory Man, Octaver, AutoWah, SansAmp and Jazz Amp emulations (to name a few) are very close to the gear they emulate. Most devices have extra parameters (like 50/60 hz, Variac and Bias in amps) that let you stray farther from the original model. If that's not enough there's always Reaktor.

mojomontana · Post by **mojomontana** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:05 am

Winstontaneous wrote:Have you tried using Guitar Rig's modulators (LFO, sequencer, envelope, etc.) to modulate parameters? Between that and setting up multiple a/b mixers and Control Room speaker/mic combos you can get a whole lot of crazy sounds.

What you see as "limited tweaking ability" is kind of the point of Guitar Rig, IMO - it's emulating specific gear that has a characteristic sound and limited options. I find the Rat, TubeScreamer, Big Muff, Memory Man, Octaver, AutoWah, SansAmp and Jazz Amp emulations (to name a few) are very close to the gear they emulate. Most devices have extra parameters (like 50/60 hz, Variac and Bias in amps) that let you stray farther from the original model. If that's not enough there's always Reaktor.

Yeah i have used all the fx on guitar rig and they're pretty good, but also very basic, most fx have 3 or so knobs to twiddle, where as if it was made for the studio it would have loads more options.

The amps are also great, but again limited in scope, just a few tone controls and distortion.

My point is there's loads of studio emulated software out there of the tonnes of studio hardware that there is, it would be great to have some of that kit modeled as perfectly as it has been in the guitar versions, with some advanced routing options, in-depth controls and maybe some classic desk emulations, it could really be a force to be reckoned with.

I'm not suggesting replacing them, i just think a studio version would be epic.

funky lime · Post by **funky lime** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:26 pm

I mean absolutely no offense in saying this, but I think you may be missing the point of the software as it is. If you want a chorus with twelve knobs instead of three, then use a seperate chorus plugin with more knobs (in this specific example, Azurite comes to mind.

A large part of hardware design, pedals in particular, is to reduce the number of knobs, offering the largest possible variety of tones with the fewest controls. If you want "studio" effects, (as opposed to guitar effects) perhaps you should look to some of the many options out there already. If you want the distortion to end all distortions, perhaps a guitar pedal emulation isn't what you should be looking at. If it's the "analog" modeling that you are after, perhaps look into something like SDRR or another saturation/mojo plugin that you can insert in your signal chain. With a bit of creative thinking and any host with halfway-decent routing options, (REAPER comes to mind here) you can pretty much achieve anything you can come up with given the multitude of tools we already have. Old hardware is great, but some of the best plugins around are entirely new, original concepts that probably wouldn't be possible in the hardware realm. And circuit-modeling seems more of a buzzword than a necessity for good sound quality these days.

That said, have you looked into ReValver? Similar concept to Amplitube or GR, but you can really get under the hood there and tweak parameters related to each individual tube and transistor. It was all a bit much for me, so I didn't delve too deeply when I demoed it a few years ago.

AC222 · Post by **AC222** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:34 am

Ok. I am going to give you my assessment on this and I'm sure others will disagree. I am super picky on tone and enjoy Amplitube's core offerings out of all the amp sims I've tried (which is all of them). In a nutshell, they the IK core offerings for amps seem to capture the character of the amps they model better than any other vendors I've tried all in all. No amp sim yet is quite perfect but for me they are quite close enough for what I can expect.

I own the full version of the latest Guitar Rig (I like the product but their amps sound 2 dimensional compare to the fuller sounding IK amps) and bunch of others Scuffham S-gear (huge peaky mid sound in all of their amp models, none of them sound like real amps to me and I've yet to be impressed by any clips I've heard on youtube), Waves GTR (, Line 6 (lacking in dynamics, muddy, and harsh), Overloud (I really like this product and some of the amps sound spot on and others sound kind of cloudy and not as lively as Amplitube), Revalver (I love the latest version but only enjoy the Peavey amps, the other modeled amp sound way too thin and don't have the body that real amps have).

One thing, go easy on the highs because you can make Amplitube sound harsh easily but you will find good results by boosting with a solid eq afterwards. Also, like many of the amp sims out there, the older models seem to benefit from notching out somewhere between 4 - 6k to tame any digital fizz. The new amp models (like Slash and Engl amps) don't seem to have nearly as much fizz as the older ones. But overall, I think the amps, especially of the new one are spot on in realism.

For clean amps, I think that the Acustica Nebula amps are the best. For Peavey amps, I prefer Revalver and I think IK's 5150 is actually a huge disappointment considering how good the rest of their amps are. But overall for overdriven amps, I am an IK fanboi. Great job IK!

Oh, by the way, the newcomer to the party, Recabinet is pretty darn awesome and worth checking out but I am happy with Amplitube and haven't felt the need to switch.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:37 am

You might look into the Bitwig, it has some fine effects,
and extremely flexible routings for them, as well as for
the tracks. I've heard midi editing is good too, but haven't tried it.
As a guitar setup, I like it, and the linux version lets you use
effects and routings like a madman.
Cheers

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:16 am

AC222 wrote:Ok. I am going to give you my assessment on this and I'm sure others will disagree. I am super picky on tone and enjoy Amplitube's core offerings out of all the amp sims I've tried (which is all of them). In a nutshell, they the IK core offerings for amps seem to capture the character of the amps they model better than any other vendors I've tried all in all. No amp sim yet is quite perfect but for me they are quite close enough for what I can expect.

I own the full version of the latest Guitar Rig (I like the product but their amps sound 2 dimensional compare to the fuller sounding IK amps) and bunch of others Scuffham S-gear (huge peaky mid sound in all of their amp models, none of them sound like real amps to me and I've yet to be impressed by any clips I've heard on youtube), Waves GTR (, Line 6 (lacking in dynamics, muddy, and harsh), Overloud (I really like this product and some of the amps sound spot on and others sound kind of cloudy and not as lively as Amplitube), Revalver (I love the latest version but only enjoy the Peavey amps, the other modeled amp sound way too thin and don't have the body that real amps have).

One thing, go easy on the highs because you can make Amplitube sound harsh easily but you will find good results by boosting with a solid eq afterwards. Also, like many of the amp sims out there, the older models seem to benefit from notching out somewhere between 4 - 6k to tame any digital fizz. The new amp models (like Slash and Engl amps) don't seem to have nearly as much fizz as the older ones. But overall, I think the amps, especially of the new one are spot on in realism.

For clean amps, I think that the Acustica Nebula amps are the best. For Peavey amps, I prefer Revalver and I think IK's 5150 is actually a huge disappointment considering how good the rest of their amps are. But overall for overdriven amps, I am an IK fanboi. Great job IK!

Oh, by the way, the newcomer to the party, Recabinet is pretty darn awesome and worth checking out but I am happy with Amplitube and haven't felt the need to switch.

It's completely ridiculous in CPU useage though. Live can handle it, but bitwig and studio one crumble w/o mercy. I have a f**king 4770......It's like living in the stone ages with vsts.

But yeah, IK, pretty good. I think "someone" (who shall remain nameless) did an album with IK

wehkah · Post by **wehkah** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:50 am

If you need some crazy effects who are fully mod-able, check out Reaktor!

cheers
T

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:53 am

glokraw wrote:You might look into the Bitwig, it has some fine effects,
and extremely flexible routings for them, as well as for
the tracks. I've heard midi editing is good too, but haven't tried it.
As a guitar setup, I like it, and the linux version lets you use
effects and routings like a madman.
Cheers

+1 you can use bitwig to modulate just about anything in guitar rig etc. based on its own lfo tool, triggers from notes or triggers from audio tracks!

mojomontana · Post by **mojomontana** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:00 pm

Well i love amplitube the most as i think they have their spring reverb perfect it really has the edge on all the others and gives it that tone that just sounds perfect. i run guitar rig through sometimes and it sounds better especially with the clean tones.

The picth shifters on them all are a bit rubbish and compared to some of the hardware ones out there are not in the same league.

i was a bit sad at the loss of ampeg and don't think the combined version sounds as good + then need more dedicated bass effects especially distortion as all the others are written for guitars, so are lacking the lowdown grunt like the ones on the bass amps themselves.

also if they are not going to release a proper pedal (this makes me very sad) they need to open it up to midi a LOT more.

My post wasn't about replacing any of them, just to do a studio version that you could proper geek it up with with all sorts of options that you wouldn't need as a guitarist, but would be great to have as a producer.

btw way i use flstuidio which is excellant, but some better routing from the vst's would be loads better for production.

Cheers for your thoughts

AC222 · Post by **AC222** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:02 pm

hibidy wrote:
AC222 wrote:Ok. I am going to give you my assessment on this and I'm sure others will disagree. I am super picky on tone and enjoy Amplitube's core offerings out of all the amp sims I've tried (which is all of them). In a nutshell, they the IK core offerings for amps seem to capture the character of the amps they model better than any other vendors I've tried all in all. No amp sim yet is quite perfect but for me they are quite close enough for what I can expect.

I own the full version of the latest Guitar Rig (I like the product but their amps sound 2 dimensional compare to the fuller sounding IK amps) and bunch of others Scuffham S-gear (huge peaky mid sound in all of their amp models, none of them sound like real amps to me and I've yet to be impressed by any clips I've heard on youtube), Waves GTR (, Line 6 (lacking in dynamics, muddy, and harsh), Overloud (I really like this product and some of the amps sound spot on and others sound kind of cloudy and not as lively as Amplitube), Revalver (I love the latest version but only enjoy the Peavey amps, the other modeled amp sound way too thin and don't have the body that real amps have).

One thing, go easy on the highs because you can make Amplitube sound harsh easily but you will find good results by boosting with a solid eq afterwards. Also, like many of the amp sims out there, the older models seem to benefit from notching out somewhere between 4 - 6k to tame any digital fizz. The new amp models (like Slash and Engl amps) don't seem to have nearly as much fizz as the older ones. But overall, I think the amps, especially of the new one are spot on in realism.

For clean amps, I think that the Acustica Nebula amps are the best. For Peavey amps, I prefer Revalver and I think IK's 5150 is actually a huge disappointment considering how good the rest of their amps are. But overall for overdriven amps, I am an IK fanboi. Great job IK!

Oh, by the way, the newcomer to the party, Recabinet is pretty darn awesome and worth checking out but I am happy with Amplitube and haven't felt the need to switch.
It's completely ridiculous in CPU useage though. Live can handle it, but bitwig and studio one crumble w/o mercy. I have a f**king 4770......It's like living in the stone ages with vsts.

But yeah, IK, pretty good. I think "someone" (who shall remain nameless) did an album with IK

Yeah the cpu usage is a bit astronomical so I always end up freezing the track and adding post fx later. But had to give a plug since I'm a big fan. On another note, good guess on that, hibidy!

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:35 pm

I've used Guitar Rig mainly for 'far-out' FX rather than 'realistic' guitar fuzz or what-not. One recent proj used the talk-wah for a second guitar part but normally that's Amplitube's bailiwick. And I've used it in crazy ways.

If you want more going on in it than a guitar stomp box, load more in it. If you have a physical controller that's, to me worth messing with you can have all of what's in an instance of GR available to it to tweak from the one vantage point. Or I automate using host automation, and assuredly it's all in one location for my workflow. Same with Amplitube but what I have available in GR includes some things which to me are not really what I would think of as guitar FX, but studio - Reflektor - and beyond, more than AT.

So as a viable feature request sort of idea, this kind of isn't it. No offense, I just think there is a basic misapprehension in the premise.

Amplitube / Guitar Rig - Studio Edition