KVR Audio

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:54 am

Rip off

cocoazenith · Post by **cocoazenith** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:02 am

jlanthier wrote: If you, or anybody else, believes that the upgrade price is not justified by the new features, I will listen respectfully all day, and carefully consider what you have to say.

Correct me if i am wrong but aren't upgrades usually licenses?

For Omni 2 you only get the software but not an additional license.

What's the use you may ask?

Don't NFR licenses usually become resellable if you pay for an official upgrade to a new version?

Thanks!

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:49 am

jlanthier wrote:By YOUR logic, what should new users pay for Ableton 9? Yes, ****9****?? Three THOUSAND dollars to avoid delivering an "ironic kick in the ass" to users who have been on board since Ableton 1.0???? I guess new NI Komplete users should be up around $5,000. Lots of new features since they charged a few hundred bucks for the measly original. Oh. Hey. How about paying $10,000 for a new copy of Microsoft Office since there are some customers who have been paying for upgrades for just about 25 years? Do you think a person who buys a new Office license today is getting the "deal of a lifetime" for a few hundred bucks? Not even the people who bought into the comparatively pathetic but similarly priced original version would think that. Unless, of course, they were almost *hopelessly* self-centered.

Also, by your logic, if you plan to live long enough to see Omnisphere 3 which will probably be less than 10 years away, then Omnisphere 2 is not the 'deal of a lifetime', it's actually a RIPOFF, because those spoiled newbies down the road buying Omni3 new will be getting WAY more features for (guess what?) probably about the same price.

It's all quite perplexing, isn't it? Maybe folks have just got used to Native Instruments and have stopped complaining about what a "kick in in the teeth" it is to "loyal customers" that they have to pay an upgrade for every version of Komplete, while new customers get it all "for free". Add on Spectra's 6 years of free updates to date and.... well hey, we've been here before.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:02 pm

jlanthier wrote:
wagtunes wrote: The ironic kicker to this whole thing is that if you never owned Omni 1 and are just buying Omni 2 for the first time for the same price as Omni 1, you are getting the deal of a lifetime
"ironic kicker"? Seriously??!?

I'm open to all arguments EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE!!

Please stop with these types of arguments - they drive me CRAZY and more importantly they are wrong, wrong WRONG!!! It's NOT the deal of a lifetime. It is a basic part of the NATURAL life cycle for practically **EVERY** piece of commercial software!!!

If you are 17 years old or younger you can bitch about this and I will understand, because you haven't been around long enough to get it. If this is the case, here is the explanation:

Commercial software gets better, and the price generally stays about the same. SIMPLE! It keeps current customers happy with new features, AND it also attracts new customers to the paying user pool, and the company gets to make enough $$$ to keep working on the software to bring more new features. And so it goes. AGAIN: except for a few notable exceptions this is how ALL commercial software works!!!

By YOUR logic, what should new users pay for Ableton 9? Yes, ****9****?? Three THOUSAND dollars to avoid delivering an "ironic kick in the ass" to users who have been on board since Ableton 1.0???? I guess new NI Komplete users should be up around $5,000. Lots of new features since they charged a few hundred bucks for the measly original. Oh. Hey. How about paying $10,000 for a new copy of Microsoft Office since there are some customers who have been paying for upgrades for just about 25 years? Do you think a person who buys a new Office license today is getting the "deal of a lifetime" for a few hundred bucks? Not even the people who bought into the comparatively pathetic but similarly priced original version would think that. Unless, of course, they were almost *hopelessly* self-centered.

Also, by your logic, if you plan to live long enough to see Omnisphere 3 which will probably be less than 10 years away, then Omnisphere 2 is not the 'deal of a lifetime', it's actually a RIPOFF, because those spoiled newbies down the road buying Omni3 new will be getting WAY more features for (guess what?) probably about the same price.

If you, or anybody else, believes that the upgrade price is not justified by the new features, I will listen respectfully all day, and carefully consider what you have to say. But if you, or anybody else, continues to make this argument that existing users are getting ripped off by having to pay more for the same feature set, then my ears will be so filled with the repeated sound of my own palm crashing into my forehead that I won't be able to hear a word you say!!!

Are you done? Yes, I know how software works. I was a programmer for 5 years of my life. I understand that it just gets better and better (hopefully) over time and that the price doesn't go up. Heck, in some cases it goes down.

I was speaking in the technical sense. If product A has more features than product B and they are both the same price, then it is a no brainer to buy product A and thus is the better deal. There is no arguing this. I don't care if software is different from the rest of the civilized world. On a purely technical level, this is the reality. Or are you saying that given two pieces of software, both being the same price, you'll buy the one with fewer features? I think not.

That's why most companies, when pricing their software, look at the competition. If they know their software isn't as complete, they usually sell it for much less to attract those looking for a "bargain." Heck, many companies have two versions of their product, one full blown and one a cut down version to appeal to those on a budget.

Having run my own business for 12 years now, I understand pricing. I also understand human nature. Part of me wishes that I didn't already own Omni 1 since I've had it for such a short time. I could have spent the exact amount of money in April and got a synth with tons more in it. Now, as it stands, I have to pay yet another $249 for it.

Maybe if I had been an owner of Omni 1 since the beginning I wouldn't feel so bad as I got tons of use out of the synth. But having owned it for less than 6 months, yes, I feel cheated and I feel those getting Omni 2 now for the first time ARE getting the deal of a lifetime since they are paying the same amount of money as I did for Omni 2.

It has nothing to do with how software continues to improve and how it is priced.

It has to do with human nature.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:06 pm

jlanthier wrote:
wagtunes wrote: The ironic kicker to this whole thing is that if you never owned Omni 1 and are just buying Omni 2 for the first time for the same price as Omni 1, you are getting the deal of a lifetime
"ironic kicker"? Seriously??!?

I'm open to all arguments EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE!!

Please stop with these types of arguments - they drive me CRAZY and more importantly they are wrong, wrong WRONG!!! It's NOT the deal of a lifetime. It is a basic part of the NATURAL life cycle for practically **EVERY** piece of commercial software!!!

If you are 17 years old or younger you can bitch about this and I will understand, because you haven't been around long enough to get it. If this is the case, here is the explanation:

Commercial software gets better, and the price generally stays about the same. SIMPLE! It keeps current customers happy with new features, AND it also attracts new customers to the paying user pool, and the company gets to make enough $$$ to keep working on the software to bring more new features. And so it goes. AGAIN: except for a few notable exceptions this is how ALL commercial software works!!!

By YOUR logic, what should new users pay for Ableton 9? Yes, ****9****?? Three THOUSAND dollars to avoid delivering an "ironic kick in the ass" to users who have been on board since Ableton 1.0???? I guess new NI Komplete users should be up around $5,000. Lots of new features since they charged a few hundred bucks for the measly original. Oh. Hey. How about paying $10,000 for a new copy of Microsoft Office since there are some customers who have been paying for upgrades for just about 25 years? Do you think a person who buys a new Office license today is getting the "deal of a lifetime" for a few hundred bucks? Not even the people who bought into the comparatively pathetic but similarly priced original version would think that. Unless, of course, they were almost *hopelessly* self-centered.

Also, by your logic, if you plan to live long enough to see Omnisphere 3 which will probably be less than 10 years away, then Omnisphere 2 is not the 'deal of a lifetime', it's actually a RIPOFF, because those spoiled newbies down the road buying Omni3 new will be getting WAY more features for (guess what?) probably about the same price.

If you, or anybody else, believes that the upgrade price is not justified by the new features, I will listen respectfully all day, and carefully consider what you have to say. But if you, or anybody else, continues to make this argument that existing users are getting ripped off by having to pay more for the same feature set, then my ears will be so filled with the repeated sound of my own palm crashing into my forehead that I won't be able to hear a word you say!!!

Thank you for injecting a healthy dose of some common sense into the thread. Now I can stop feeling sorry for myself for having bought Komplete 1 for $1200 which had like 8 products.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:18 pm

wagtunes wrote: Now, as it stands, I have to pay yet another $249 for it.

You actually don't have to. I'm pretty sure spectrasonics will allow you to keep using V1 if you want.

wagtunes wrote: Maybe if I had been an owner of Omni 1 since the beginning I wouldn't feel so bad as I got tons of use out of the synth. But having owned it for less than 6 months, yes, I feel cheated and I feel those getting Omni 2 now for the first time ARE getting the deal of a lifetime since they are paying the same amount of money as I did for Omni 2.

You definitely weren't cheated but I do feel bad for you and anyone in your position. But if V1 in it's current state wasn't worth it to you, you wouldn't have paid for it. As has been discussed to death, many people are in this position all the time with software upgrades, or even worse, sales and promotions! People buy something at full price and the next week it's half off. Not just software but anything in life! Win some you lose some right?

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:21 pm

6 weeks of saving enough to get $249 together. 2 months plus...wow.

declan32001 · Post by **declan32001** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:54 pm

Far be it for me to kill the vibe of a good scrum, but I ran across this: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2015/01/ ... re-2-demo/

I could see a lot more in this, YMMV, I also learned a bit more too.

Dewdman42 · Post by **Dewdman42** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:39 pm

Just watched Eric's demo again from NAMM. This is worth every penny, including those of you complaining about the $250 upgrade pricing. Just wait, after other people have it and are doing amazing things with it, you will run to the bank to get your $250 ready. Put it all in perspective, I have had to upgrade my DAW I don't know how many times at over $100 per time, almost annually. Finale users have paid that annually to stay on top of updates. Spectrasonics has waited how many years until finally a major update?, and it is indeed a very major update and they are asking for $250, its quite reasonable to me. How much have some people spent to upgrade Komplete over the years? mostly getting nothing but never ending mediocre piano sample libraries and stuff like that, they toss out a few new bones each time that just barely makes it worth it, but people do.

If that isn't enough justification for you, consider everything that is being added here, its going to be a completely new beast, it might as well be a new synth you are buying. The synth section is being updated so much its scary and I'm wondering if I need to get rid of my expensive Jupiter-80 while its still worth something. they are making it possible in Omni2 to modulate almost everything in the product by almost everything else in the product. The possibilities here are limitless with all the wavetables they are providing, the existing library of exotic samples, which is being expanded, and the ability to import your own samples, granular synth and FX racks with 50+ FX modules.......wow.

And did anyone catch they have now brought all the filters from Imposcar into Omni2? They sound freaking awesome.

Sorry, its the same look and feel, but this is a major update of power and versatility to the program and it might as well be a completely new product in many ways. We are going to see some insane sounds coming out of Omni2 that Omni1 will not be able to touch. $250 upgrade fee is not uneasonable at all if you consider it will probably be another 5 years or more before you're asked to upgrade again.

I do feel sorry for someone that bought Omni1 recently, like within the last year. That is a tough pill to swallow, Effectively $750 for Omni2, especially if you didn't get around to using it much during the last year. Spectrasonics ought to provide a little leniency on that, that is the downside of not having regular updates. If they ahd updates more often, then some people wold update every year and spend well more then $250 over 5 years. Other people would hold off and only update occasionally, probably would have neared $250 by now or more, but people who had purchased recently would have upgraded less or none, so more often updates at a lower cost per update would probably be received a lot better by the public (if you're listening Eric) and make things more fair for people that bought Omni1 later in the 5 year product cycle compared to people that bought it when it first came out and have more than gotten their $500 value out of it.

In any case, Omni2 is going to be awesome and I am definitely getting it.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:49 pm

Heheh, 'justification'.
A Cognitive Dissonance in GAS begging for a rational dispute...

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:04 pm

Just wait for Omnisphere 5 and you get the most value for your money

I also can still preorder the standard upgrade for the vip upgrade price (at least in Germany). So i think 199€ (incl. vat) are a good price even when i bought Omnisphere 1 in Sommer 2014 for 333€ (....if i had wait 2 month more). It seems that Atmosphere users can upgrade also for the same to Omnisphere 2 without having to upgrade to Omni 1 before. I find their marketing fair. Love it or leave it!

declan32001 · Post by **declan32001** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:14 pm

Dewdman42 wrote:And did anyone catch they have now brought all the filters from Imposcar into Omni2? They sound freaking awesome.

I do feel sorry for someone that bought Omni1 recently, like within the last year. That is a tough pill to swallow, Effectively $750 for Omni2, especially if you didn't get around to using it much during the last year. Spectrasonics ought to provide a little leniency on that, that is the downside of not having regular updates. If they ahd updates more often, then some people wold update every year and spend well more then $250 over 5 years. Other people would hold off and only update occasionally, probably would have neared $250 by now or more, but people who had purchased recently would have upgraded less or none, so more often updates at a lower cost per update would probably be received a lot better by the public (if you're listening Eric) and make things more fair for people that bought Omni1 later in the 5 year product cycle compared to people that bought it when it first came out and have more than gotten their $500 value out of it.

In any case, Omni2 is going to be awesome and I am definitely getting it.

All of the Imposcar filters jolted me, and that was a reason I posted the link to the video.

But I don't feel sorry for people that bought Omnisphere at any time, and I certainly don't begrudge people getting the upgrade for free. Unless you've (meaning anyone) never paid attention we've all been on both sides of that fence many times before.

After I upgrade to Omnisphere 2, I will have "given" Spectrasonics $450 since 2002. That's roughly the equivalent of one new set of tires in 13 years, but a lot more fun.

declan32001 · Post by **declan32001** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:19 pm

BBFG# wrote:Heheh, 'justification'.
A Cognitive Dissonance in GAS begging for a rational dispute...

How can you even comment about an upgrade price you have no access to?

Dewdman42 · Post by **Dewdman42** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:19 pm

how did you get omni1 for $200?

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:41 pm

BBFG# wrote:Heheh, 'justification'.
A Cognitive Dissonance in GAS begging for a rational dispute...

True, actually. I just wanted it. So there.

You should talk to my wife sometimes about her monthly clothing budget.

Omnisphere 2 is here! (yes, it's really here!)