The breakthrough in analog synths - what was it?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6409 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
I remember babysitting an EMI mono synth for friend while he was traveling in the 70's.
You had to let it run for at least 15 minutes or something, then adjusting octave to be right - then tune to pitch. This over and over a couple of times before it plays in tune.
Then redo this in between for the next hour or so.
Recommendations were to always have it powered up at least once a month - to keep electrolythic capacitors in shape. So very much concern about the discrete components in there to be as good as possible.
In consert he had to do the same thing, sneak up on stage in darkness and tune stuff to be ready for entrance.
It was pretty much the same with Moog as I understand - run it for two hours or something before oscillators were warm and stable.
Was it Prophet 5 that made the breakthrough?
And what was it that made oscillators work over keyboard range without serious tuning issues?
In later 80's I don't remember this was an issue at all - Roland Jupiter etc.
And this Prophet 6 is no exception it seems - nothing mentioned other than pure analog signal path - but how are fully analog oscillators kept stable?
Is there true story that it's semi analog - or?
It's tuning itself to a digital oscillator on the side, or?
Really curious about the history here.
Any input on this?
Best regards
You had to let it run for at least 15 minutes or something, then adjusting octave to be right - then tune to pitch. This over and over a couple of times before it plays in tune.
Then redo this in between for the next hour or so.
Recommendations were to always have it powered up at least once a month - to keep electrolythic capacitors in shape. So very much concern about the discrete components in there to be as good as possible.
In consert he had to do the same thing, sneak up on stage in darkness and tune stuff to be ready for entrance.
It was pretty much the same with Moog as I understand - run it for two hours or something before oscillators were warm and stable.
Was it Prophet 5 that made the breakthrough?
And what was it that made oscillators work over keyboard range without serious tuning issues?
In later 80's I don't remember this was an issue at all - Roland Jupiter etc.
And this Prophet 6 is no exception it seems - nothing mentioned other than pure analog signal path - but how are fully analog oscillators kept stable?
Is there true story that it's semi analog - or?
It's tuning itself to a digital oscillator on the side, or?
Really curious about the history here.
Any input on this?
Best regards
- KVRAF
- 9451 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
Better components,better overall construction. Use of temperature compensated components.lfm wrote:- but how are fully analog oscillators kept stable?
Is there true story that it's semi analog - or?
It's tuning itself to a digital oscillator on the side, or?
Really curious about the history here.
Any input on this?
Best regards
Nowadays you can make analog oscillators that are really stable without digital help.
In fact so stable they now reintroduce tuning errors.
So i'm positive the Prophet 6 is completely analog (the signal path that is).
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She Changed Her Mind She Changed Her Mind https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=342043
- Banned
- 452 posts since 22 Nov, 2014 from Amsterdam
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- KVRAF
- 2022 posts since 15 Aug, 2012 from Australia
the prophet six has temperature sensors all over the place sending information to digitally controlled oscillators. that's how it keeps tune.
Nick Batt from Sonicstate talks to Dave Smith about it on a NAMM 2015 youtube clip. Watched it yesterday.
Nick Batt from Sonicstate talks to Dave Smith about it on a NAMM 2015 youtube clip. Watched it yesterday.
I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.
- KVRAF
- 2022 posts since 15 Aug, 2012 from Australia
here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrCEmncGz-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrCEmncGz-o
I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6409 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
Good input, thanks.werp wrote:the prophet six has temperature sensors all over the place sending information to digitally controlled oscillators. that's how it keeps tune.
Nick Batt from Sonicstate talks to Dave Smith about it on a NAMM 2015 youtube clip. Watched it yesterday.
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- KVRian
- 764 posts since 2 Jun, 2004
The oscillators are VCO's so there's probably a D/A somewhere in between.
The tuning might be incorporated differently, but the principle is the same as in any old poly synth with VCO's, some examples are Jupiter 6/8, Memorymoog, Prophet 5, Prophet 600, Prophet T8, Oberheim OBX/OBXa/OB8/Matrix 12/Xpander. The difference was obviously that the older synths didn't have as fast processors as we have today, which is probably why the tuning wasn't as tight/accurate. For what it's worth, all the modern Moog synths also have digital tuning of their VCO's.
The tuning might be incorporated differently, but the principle is the same as in any old poly synth with VCO's, some examples are Jupiter 6/8, Memorymoog, Prophet 5, Prophet 600, Prophet T8, Oberheim OBX/OBXa/OB8/Matrix 12/Xpander. The difference was obviously that the older synths didn't have as fast processors as we have today, which is probably why the tuning wasn't as tight/accurate. For what it's worth, all the modern Moog synths also have digital tuning of their VCO's.
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- KVRian
- 764 posts since 2 Jun, 2004
As for breakthroughs in analog synths, I'd say the following top 3:
1. Polyphony - I think Oberheim was the first true polyphonic synth with the Four Voice.
2. Programmability - Prophet 5 was the first programmable poly synth (i.e. saving patches?)
3. MIDI - Not to forget MIDI. The Prophet 600 and the Roland Jupiter 6 were the two first synths that "talked" to each other if I recall correctly.
1. Polyphony - I think Oberheim was the first true polyphonic synth with the Four Voice.
2. Programmability - Prophet 5 was the first programmable poly synth (i.e. saving patches?)
3. MIDI - Not to forget MIDI. The Prophet 600 and the Roland Jupiter 6 were the two first synths that "talked" to each other if I recall correctly.
- KVRAF
- 2022 posts since 15 Aug, 2012 from Australia
that's what I meant digital tuning....digital control via temperature, of voltage controlled oscillators...didn't have my head screwed on properly this morning.eXode wrote:The oscillators are VCO's so there's probably a D/A somewhere in between.
The tuning might be incorporated differently, but the principle is the same as in any old poly synth with VCO's, some examples are Jupiter 6/8, Memorymoog, Prophet 5, Prophet 600, Prophet T8, Oberheim OBX/OBXa/OB8/Matrix 12/Xpander. The difference was obviously that the older synths didn't have as fast processors as we have today, which is probably why the tuning wasn't as tight/accurate. For what it's worth, all the modern Moog synths also have digital tuning of their VCO's.
Not sure it's any better right now to be honest
I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6409 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
Now history starts to unfold, thanks.eXode wrote:As for breakthroughs in analog synths, I'd say the following top 3:
1. Polyphony - I think Oberheim was the first true polyphonic synth with the Four Voice.
2. Programmability - Prophet 5 was the first programmable poly synth (i.e. saving patches?)
3. MIDI - Not to forget MIDI. The Prophet 600 and the Roland Jupiter 6 were the two first synths that "talked" to each other if I recall correctly.
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- KVRer
- 27 posts since 25 Jan, 2015
First polyphonic? Not the four voice. I think my Oberheim TVS-1 claims that position. I'm the original owner (no wise-cracks) and it still sounds great.eXode wrote:As for breakthroughs in analog synths, I'd say the following top 3:
1. Polyphony - I think Oberheim was the first true polyphonic synth with the Four Voice.
2. Programmability - Prophet 5 was the first programmable poly synth (i.e. saving patches?)
3. MIDI - Not to forget MIDI. The Prophet 600 and the Roland Jupiter 6 were the two first synths that "talked" to each other if I recall correctly.
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- KVRian
- 1073 posts since 31 May, 2007
I thought the minimoog was like a breakthrough?....i thought the jupiter 8 had midi first,correct me if im wrong on that one;)
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