De-Essing a... electric guitar? Is this insane?

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<Newbie warning>

I have very strange observation and some questions.

I have had a lot of problems with squeaky, clangy, metallic and too bright amped electric guitar sound. My attempts with compression or EQ were not very successful at removing ugly sounds. I searched solutions and tried many things proposed at various sites.

Then one guy told that de-essing had improved the sound somewhat. Most of my de-essers were not suitable because they concentrated to too high frequencies (over 5kHz). But, VST called mda de-esser worked! With de-essing and subtle saturation, the sound improved a lot.

Now, very strange set of questions: is this a well-known trick? Is there a preferred De-Esser for this? Or anything else which does the same things? (I even thought about getting FabFilter Pro-DS for this).

</Newbie warning>

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I'm tired of being insane. I'm going outsane for some fresh air.

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TB FlX is very cool for this. I recently checked it out for heavy guitars and I'm very pleased with the results.

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Waves VST solution seems to be 2-3 times more expensive solution than Pro-DS (I get discounts from previous buys from FabFilter). TB FIX seemed to be EQ, I think I have enough of those (but maybe my skills are not up to my arsenal...). Sorry, if I misunderstand something, I'm a newb...

Any other tricks or tools?

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Check out the dynamic mode in TB FlX. I'm not talking about it as an eq. :wink:

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Essence is great for this and we're pretty certain that it's the best result you can get in hardware or software regardless of how much money you spend. Free 30 day demo.

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OK. I will be trying out TB FIX and DMG Audio Essence. Also FabFilter Pro-DS.

Any more ideas? Are there *other* well-known ways to tame electric guitar sound? I understand what double-tracking, adding root bass and removing lowest and highest frequencies do. Now this de-essing, saturating and careful EQ thingie. I bet there are quite a few others. Any pointers?

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Markku wrote:Any more ideas? Are there *other* well-known ways to tame electric guitar sound? I understand what double-tracking, adding root bass and removing lowest and highest frequencies do. Now this de-essing, saturating and careful EQ thingie. I bet there are quite a few others. Any pointers?
Yes. Reverb. Just enough to wash/blur the transients a little bit. Experiment with very low pre-delay values and try to achieve a silky decay between beats. Valhalla's Vintage Verb would be a great candidate for this task.

A multiband compressor such as FabFilter's Pro-MB could work as well. There're probably some nasty resonant frequencies there, so you must find them first with eq sweep. Then use the multiband compressor to tame these specific frequencies.

Brainsworx Refinement is a kind of all in one solution for this kind of things. You might want to give it a try as well, but first I would try the other suggestions.

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Markku wrote:<Newbie warning>

I have very strange observation and some questions.

I have had a lot of problems with squeaky, clangy, metallic and too bright amped electric guitar sound. My attempts with compression or EQ were not very successful at removing ugly sounds. I searched solutions and tried many things proposed at various sites.

Then one guy told that de-essing had improved the sound somewhat. Most of my de-essers were not suitable because they concentrated to too high frequencies (over 5kHz). But, VST called mda de-esser worked! With de-essing and subtle saturation, the sound improved a lot.

Now, very strange set of questions: is this a well-known trick? Is there a preferred De-Esser for this? Or anything else which does the same things? (I even thought about getting FabFilter Pro-DS for this).

</Newbie warning>

Yes, to be honest I think it is actually insane. With a guitar - which is an electro-acoustic instrument - you shape the sound yourself, beginning with the wood of your guitar and your fingers, your strings, maybe your pick, your guitar's pickups, your amp (or amp-sim), the cabinet (or cabinet-sim) maybe your microphone(s) (or mic-sim) and their position (or sim of position)...

You have an almost unlimited amount of control over the tone there in the combination of all these elements. Getting it the way you want it requires time, practice and experimentation. To introduce an additional system to fix what you did wrong in the first-place and with this to introduce yet another variable that has no part in the actual sound-shaping system - which makes it all even more complex - is imo insane, yes.
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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RafaelMorgan wrote:
Markku wrote:Any more ideas? Are there *other* well-known ways to tame electric guitar sound? I understand what double-tracking, adding root bass and removing lowest and highest frequencies do. Now this de-essing, saturating and careful EQ thingie. I bet there are quite a few others. Any pointers?
Yes. Reverb. Just enough to wash/blur the transients a little bit. Experiment with very low pre-delay values and try to achieve a silky decay between beats. Valhalla's Vintage Verb would be a great candidate for this task.

A multiband compressor such as FabFilter's Pro-MB could work as well. There're probably some nasty resonant frequencies there, so you must find them first with eq sweep. Then use the multiband compressor to tame these specific frequencies.

Brainsworx Refinement is a kind of all in one solution for this kind of things. You might want to give it a try as well, but first I would try the other suggestions.

For the same reason explained above I think this is no good advice. Reverb? Listen to the guitar dry - does it sound great? If not, fix that first!


Actually I think the best you can do is to rehearse your guitar normally unplugged. Does it sound gorgeous? If not, work on your finger-technique, try different picks, string-gauges, string materials - maybe have your guitar checked by a tech (if you're not experienced in setting it up yourself.Maybe the neck needs to get adjusted because of the type of pick your are using. Once it sounds gorgeous, plug it in - does it still sounds gorgeous (on a clean amp-setting, of course)? If not, try to find out why.

Once it sounds gorgeous, try to get this sound into your computer - then chances are you won't need a lot of eq/compression/whatever anymore. Make that your goal. Trying to fix in the machine what is broken outside of it, will only be in your way to reach this goal.



edit: typo
Last edited by jens on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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While it does make literal sense, I don't see it necessary, don't think any pro does it.

My setup is chaotic, and I'm ok w/that. Prob down to physical electronics, what Jens is talking of.
The only site for experimental amp sim freeware & MIDI FX: http://runbeerrun.blogspot.com
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCprNcvVH6aPTehLv8J5xokA -Youtube jams

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How are you recording the guitar?

Cables, mixers and mics can all add noise... look at those first.

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Yes, that was what I learned first, when I read about improving the sound, is that proper recording is much more important than mixing or mastering. However, I don't have actual access to recording phase to all material I have. So I need to take the "wrong" route here. I wouldn't be asking in KVR, probably, if I need to learn about mic placement... :D

Also, some of background stuff will have to be (*gasp*) entirely artificial (i.e. VST instruments).

So, workarounds are very welcome, even when you studio pros won't need them... :D

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Markku wrote: I wouldn't be asking in KVR, probably, if I need to learn about mic placement... :D
:hihi:

Well, actually some of us roam both KVR and Gearslutz... ;-)


You didn't mention in your OP that we are talking about recordings where you don't have the option to get them fixed anymore... :-)

in this case: examples please - otherwise it's quite hard to give reasonable advice. ;-)
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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Markku wrote:<Newbie warning>

I have very strange observation and some questions.

I have had a lot of problems with squeaky, clangy, metallic and too bright amped electric guitar sound. My attempts with compression or EQ were not very successful at removing ugly sounds. I searched solutions and tried many things proposed at various sites.

Then one guy told that de-essing had improved the sound somewhat. Most of my de-essers were not suitable because they concentrated to too high frequencies (over 5kHz). But, VST called mda de-esser worked! With de-essing and subtle saturation, the sound improved a lot.

Now, very strange set of questions: is this a well-known trick? Is there a preferred De-Esser for this? Or anything else which does the same things? (I even thought about getting FabFilter Pro-DS for this).

</Newbie warning>
you know what dude? Of course it is not insane, especially when you can find free de-essers out there. In fact I think it might be less sane not to try it. You say you're e newbie, well you know how you get away from being a newbie? You try new things, you experiment, you practice, as a result you learn and grow. None of us seasoned guitar players can say we haven't done insane things. :hihi: (I'm remembering me as a youth discovering fuzz by overloading the VU meters on my old radio shack 8-track cartridge player...I called it the Jimi Hendrix sound because I didn't really know what it was)

I think you'll find a better solution than a de-esser but you could use it to get rid of some hiss. I too would be interested in how you record you guitar, the type of guitar, your amp choice (or sim). I would even go as far as to ask if I can hear the noise. :)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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