Kick and bass in key - without clashing/mud?

[weaver123]

Hi,

I know its common knowledge to tune your kick to the bass in dance music, however if i do this, the kick and bass clash really bad frequency wise resulting in just a lot of mud.

if i match both fundamental frequencies of the kick and bass to the same note and then say tune the kick up one octave, then even though they might be able to breathe better together and are the same key, the kick loses its punch and seems too high end.

so how do i do this, yet keep the kick its punch and not create a muddy mess?

i'm transposing the kick drum down in battery 4, then using melda's MAnalyser to match the kicks fundamental to the bass.

Thanks
Brad

[Tricky-Loops]

Maybe by sidechaining the bass with the kick track as well as notching out some frequencies of the bass with an EQ to get more room for the kick?

[ImNotDedYet]

You really don't want to have both your kick and bass at the same fundamental frequencies. One should be an octave above the other as mentioned. What octave is your bass playing that your kick sounds bad up an octave? Are you using a sample for your kick? Have you tried rather than an octave up, putting it a fifth up so it's still in key with the bass, but not on the same fundamental frequency?

Some things you can do if they're NOT the same fundamental frequency: EQ dip on the kick where the bass fundamental frequency is and EQ dip on the bass where the kick fundamental frequency is. Sidechaining will work if they are the same, but you may find you're taking too much of the bass out by sidechaining. Another thing to look at is frequency bumps and dips higher up where say the kick has some oomph or the bass.

[qa2pir]

i've found that in order to glue the kick and bass, using your ears and microshifting and/or phase flipping the components takes you about 90 % there. it's about very minute harmonic interactions when you're working in that end of the spectrum where texture isn't applicable.

i.e. adjust attack time for your midi notes, or move your audio sample around. the precise logistics of it depends on what your sound sources are and what sort of niches they are filling.

the "use your ears" part overrides putting the kick in key. the sooner you abandon rules, the better. of course it can sound good sometimes to have the kick in key but don't struggle with an awkward sound clash just because it "oughta" work. more often than not that steady-tone tail end of a kick is irrelevant to its sonic qualities and interactions with other elements, anyways.

[camsr]

The fastest way to prevent kick/bass mud is to use a compressor. Put the kick and bass on one mixer track and turn up the kick 12dB over the bass, and compress it heavily.

[ZenPunkHippy]

This article will help:

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1211

The key thing is to recognise is that the frequencies for cutting and boosting are different every time, depending on the kick drum and bass line frequency content (sound, timbre, notes) - so it's not possible to say "always cut or boost these frequencies". You need to figure it out for each mix.

Peace,
Andy.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Something else to consider:

If the kick drum and bass are playing at the same time, and at the same root note (or octave, 5ths, anything harmonically related), if there is a timing difference between the 2 sounds you will get phase cancellations and it will sound weird (especially on larger sound systems).

One way to fix this is to precisely align the two elements so that the transients occur at exactly the same time. Tools such as Voxengo Sample Delay can help, or render your tracks and work directly with the audio tracks.

[weaver123]

Thanks for the replies everyone only just read these, much appreciated.