Bazille 1.0
- KVRAF
- 1725 posts since 26 Feb, 2013 from Sweden
- KVRAF
- 25305 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
It is not just that there are 4 filters... the Bazille filters are newer and incorporate some of the knowledge learned from Diva development (0 dbf etc). They are also more flexible with 2 inputs, 6 simultaneous outputs and you have a lot more modulation modules... lag generators, quantizer, inverters, rectifiers and 4 multiples.ghettosynth wrote:Well, yes, and there's four of them, there's also a pretty cool sequencer, but I don't think those are what really makes Bazille stand out. I think that we just have a different barometer for "interesting." If someone is saying "I can get the same thing out of a VA, say ACE", then, telling them that there are two more filters in Bazille isn't really worth THAT much.pdxindy wrote:I agree with you about the Oscillators... but disagree that there isn't much else interesting. I have a few presets where all the sound design is via the filters and some complex feedback routing and modulation. Nobody would guess that it is only one Osc set to a sine wave.ghettosynth wrote:This is exactly correct. If you aren't spending a LOT of time working with the oscillators in Bazille, then it probably isn't going to please you. After all, without the FM and PD detail in the oscillators, there isn't much interesting beyond the slightly non-standard choice of effects modules.
The filters are a whole world of creative sound design by themselves.
This sound is mainly made using 1 Bazille filter. Sure the 1 Osc is also important to the sound, but it is mostly the filter doing the heavy work. The filter output is multiplied by itself and then modulated and sent through the quantizer and back into the 2nd filter input. You could not do this in ACE, nor in just about any of the popular VA's available today.
http://draigathar.org/sounds/B58.mp3
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- KVRAF
- 15507 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
Sure, I get that it is MORE modular than ACE and has additional toys, I just don't think that those are what make it interesting. It's trivial to get multiple inputs to ACE's filters, you have mixers.pdxindy wrote:It is not just that there are 4 filters... the Bazille filters are newer and incorporate some of the knowledge learned from Diva development (0 dbf etc). They are also more flexible with 2 inputs, 6 simultaneous outputs and you have a lot more modulation modules... lag generators, quantizer, inverters, rectifiers and 4 multiples.ghettosynth wrote:Well, yes, and there's four of them, there's also a pretty cool sequencer, but I don't think those are what really makes Bazille stand out. I think that we just have a different barometer for "interesting." If someone is saying "I can get the same thing out of a VA, say ACE", then, telling them that there are two more filters in Bazille isn't really worth THAT much.pdxindy wrote:I agree with you about the Oscillators... but disagree that there isn't much else interesting. I have a few presets where all the sound design is via the filters and some complex feedback routing and modulation. Nobody would guess that it is only one Osc set to a sine wave.ghettosynth wrote:This is exactly correct. If you aren't spending a LOT of time working with the oscillators in Bazille, then it probably isn't going to please you. After all, without the FM and PD detail in the oscillators, there isn't much interesting beyond the slightly non-standard choice of effects modules.
The filters are a whole world of creative sound design by themselves.
You could not do it in the same way because you don't have the separate ring-mod. I'm not convinced that you couldn't get a similar sound with ACE, and more importantly, once you start using filter feedback, I think that a lot of what makes 0dfb filters interesting, matters less.This sound is mainly made using 1 Bazille filter. Sure the 1 Osc is also important to the sound, but it is mostly the filter doing the heavy work. The filter output is multiplied by itself and then modulated and sent through the quantizer and back into the 2nd filter input. You could not do this in ACE, nor in just about any of the popular VA's available today.
http://draigathar.org/sounds/B58.mp3
We can agree to disagree. For me, without the interesting PD/FM oscillators, Bazille isn't interesting enough that I would have purchased it. I was on the fence until right up to the release even though I had downloaded the beta at least a year ago, and I think longer than that.
- KVRAF
- 25305 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
ACE only has 2 multiples... I used all 4 plus the second filter input in Bazille...ghettosynth wrote:Sure, I get that it is MORE modular than ACE and has additional toys, I just don't think that those are what make it interesting. It's trivial to get multiple inputs to ACE's filters, you have mixers.
Of course you are welcome to not find those tools interesting... but that does not mean lots of other people do not find them interesting.
After using Bazille I regularly miss those other modules when using other synths.
- KVRAF
- 25305 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
When you start exploring filter feedback and controlling gain and resonance, Bazille's filters have far more timbral diversity than the same thing in Ace. I've done the same in both and out on the edges, the Ace filters don't come close. Whether 0dbf or something else, the filters in Bazille are exceptional in this regard.ghettosynth wrote: You could not do it in the same way because you don't have the separate ring-mod. I'm not convinced that you couldn't get a similar sound with ACE, and more importantly, once you start using filter feedback, I think that a lot of what makes 0dfb filters interesting, matters less.
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- KVRAF
- 15507 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
I've spent some time with filter feedback in Reaktor, and back in the day, with the Nord Modular. I'm not into it all that much any more. I'm not just comparing Bazille to ACE and I don't think that other people are either. It isn't about whether it has more, it's about how much more. After all, almost every synth has something different. I don't think that even Zebra is different enough from my existing collection of synths to justify the purchase and it's clearly better than many.pdxindy wrote:When you start exploring filter feedback and controlling gain and resonance, Bazille's filters have far more timbral diversity than the same thing in Ace. I've done the same in both and out on the edges, the Ace filters don't come close. Whether 0dbf or something else, the filters in Bazille are exceptional in this regard.ghettosynth wrote: You could not do it in the same way because you don't have the separate ring-mod. I'm not convinced that you couldn't get a similar sound with ACE, and more importantly, once you start using filter feedback, I think that a lot of what makes 0dfb filters interesting, matters less.
Filter feedback is somewhat challenging to tame, it can quickly become fatiguing. I agree that Bazille has a nice collection of extra modules, but I think that for someone looking at how well the emperor is dressed, those are just accessories, the star of the show are the oscillators. You can get very interesting timbral diversity quite easily just be embracing some basic PD and FM knowledge. I think that this is especially true if you are looking for "nice" sounds.
I started this by responding to someone who doesn't think that Bazille creates "musical" sounds. I understand that perspective because at first, I was treating it much like a typical subtractive VA synth. I don't think that's it's strength at all and I don't think that for someone who isn't impressed with it as a VA will become more impressed after using filter feedback or playing around with the utility modules. What I think makes Bazille really stand out, that is, what I think is interesting about it, is the detail in the oscillators. Without that, sure, it still has some edge over ACE or even Diva just because it is a more capable modular, but not enough to make it stand out to those looking for something orthogonal to ACE.
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- KVRAF
- 15507 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
I didn't say that the tools themselves aren't interesting. I said that they aren't what make the synth interesting. In my opinion, which has always been what I'm talking about, they do not contribute a heavy weight to the uniqueness vector of Bazille. If you're trying to decide whether or not to buy Bazille and you already have something like ACE, I don't think that Bazille would add enough without the oscillators.pdxindy wrote:ACE only has 2 multiples... I used all 4 plus the second filter input in Bazille...ghettosynth wrote:Sure, I get that it is MORE modular than ACE and has additional toys, I just don't think that those are what make it interesting. It's trivial to get multiple inputs to ACE's filters, you have mixers.
Of course you are welcome to not find those tools interesting... but that does not mean lots of other people do not find them interesting.
Said differently, if Bazille was instead ACE2 with ACE's oscillators and Bazille's filters, it would still be less interesting to me than a version of Bazille that had the FM/PD oscillators and ACE's filters.
- KVRAF
- 25305 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
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- KVRAF
- 1811 posts since 25 Feb, 2005
I think the issue some people have is an expectation of what they assumed it would be, Ace 2, it couldn't be further than that, apart from the modular approach. The structure and sound of the oscillators is very different and of course being able to modulate one osc with another at audible frequencies. It certainly will not be everyone's cup of tea, there is a demo. Unfortunately for me I was captivated by it immediately and another PayPal to a uhe LOL. Seriously demo it and make your own mind, I get its a marmite sort of synth.
Mac Studio
10.14.7.3
Cubase 13, Ableton Live 12
10.14.7.3
Cubase 13, Ableton Live 12
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- KVRian
- 1121 posts since 8 Oct, 2004 from Australia
I thought that both Bazille and ACE were a type of 'Proof of Concept'....scouts sent out from the Mothership that is Berlin Modularwoodsdenis wrote:I think the issue some people have is an expectation of what they assumed it would be, Ace 2, it couldn't be further than that, apart from the modular approach. The structure and sound of the oscillators is very different and of course being able to modulate one osc with another at audible frequencies. It certainly will not be everyone's cup of tea, there is a demo. Unfortunately for me I was captivated by it immediately and another PayPal to a uhe LOL. Seriously demo it and make your own mind, I get its a marmite sort of synth.
- KVRAF
- 25305 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
- KVRAF
- 23077 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Now you're just trolling.