Question on Cubase VST System Link
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crosshairs0809 crosshairs0809 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=339584
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 12 Oct, 2014
As I've said, for now we just want something that will get the job done no matter how difficult it will be.. Can I connect my laptop to the desktop and duplicate the display? Would that work?
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
Possibly, again a bit experimental but - heres a way :crosshairs0809 wrote:As I've said, for now we just want something that will get the job done no matter how difficult it will be.. Can I connect my laptop to the desktop and duplicate the display? Would that work?
http://zoneos.com/zonescreen.htm
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crosshairs0809 crosshairs0809 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=339584
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 12 Oct, 2014
Ultra-JV, I have used Avatron's Air display software before and it's worked well. I think I may stick with that for now when we have a bigger need.
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- KVRist
- 170 posts since 24 Mar, 2005
VST System Link
2 audio cards of the same make-using the same samplerate/bit depth-
Syncronization over ADAT (lightpipe) or SPDIF- (coaxial)
I did this with Creamware / Sonic Core cards but I needed help to do this as I didn't know what to expect-
If using ADAT it will hog the I/O so plenty of ins/outs needed possibly.
Sync without VST system link should be OK with wordclock (big ben or similar) sync and MIDI time code (i think) then other DAW's can be used-There would be problems and its not easy even for audio pro's which I am not, repeat I am not!-
Even a basic ish home studio with this would get quite involving and end up not being simple and straightforward but it could be done! and with new tech like LAN (VEP5) and PC's with 32-64GB RAM your setup would be flexible.
2 audio cards of the same make-using the same samplerate/bit depth-
Syncronization over ADAT (lightpipe) or SPDIF- (coaxial)
I did this with Creamware / Sonic Core cards but I needed help to do this as I didn't know what to expect-
If using ADAT it will hog the I/O so plenty of ins/outs needed possibly.
Sync without VST system link should be OK with wordclock (big ben or similar) sync and MIDI time code (i think) then other DAW's can be used-There would be problems and its not easy even for audio pro's which I am not, repeat I am not!-
Even a basic ish home studio with this would get quite involving and end up not being simple and straightforward but it could be done! and with new tech like LAN (VEP5) and PC's with 32-64GB RAM your setup would be flexible.
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- KVRist
- 113 posts since 3 Dec, 2005
So what became the solution for the original poster? Seems like many were steering away from the subject at hand ... 'VST System Link'.
System Link over multiple computers works as desired by the OP at the start of his thread.
What's needed in each computer (PC or Mac) is a VST System Link capable Steinberg product, Cubase, Nuendo, VSTack etc...it doesn't have to the latest versions, nor expensive flag ship versions. All version come with VST System Link starting with Cubase SX1 (actually was available with VST 5/32's last update but only works one-way) If each person in the band buys their own version of Cubase, (new or used) the cost is divided. I've seen older used legitimate Cubase versions for sale on eBay for dirt cheap.
Each computer needs an audio interface with a digital I/O connection, cards with s/pdif are affordable. It's 'recommended' best to use an audio interface in each computer to be of the same manufacturer....just so that everything is compatible throughout (for mostly clocking I believe).
VST System link works in a 'ring' network...all digital cables go in & out of each PC's audio interfaces....going out from the 1st PC's interface, then in & out of the next, and so on, until going back into the last PC's interface.
As said, all PC's need to use the same sample rate, and I believe bit rate to work. Also they must each use the same Tempo. You set just ONE PC to the sample rate, say 44.1 KHz, and all others to 'follow' whatever you're using, s/pdif lightpipe etc. You need to choose a digital I/O in your sound card, and within Cubase. In the case of s/pdif, one cable is stereo. You choose the 'same channel' for your input/output...eg; channel 9 in/out. This I/O channel routing configuration is where most people go wrong....as well as going wrong on the above ...(eg; one PC set to 44.1 KHz, all others set to s/pdif to follow).
Each PC's host (Cubase) can have their own 'everything' and 'anything'...this means their own audio & midi tracks, VSTi's, FX's etc. Each PC user can monitor themselves AND 'everyone else' from their own headphone jack, just as long as you've selected the correct monitoring. Eventually you may want to bring each PC's stereo audio together into a mixer, then into loud speakers if say, performing live. Alternatively, you can bring each PC users stereo audio into one of the PC's audio interface, using it as the effective mixer, but obviously needs the appropriate number of audio inputs.
Cables are just going to be a part of it, period! The System Link data AND stereo audio from each PC can all go through the digital cables from PC to PC, as well as some midi data, being the System Link data only takes up '1 bit' of data. That's the MINIMUM cabling involved, and it works...well besides headphones on each. Since each PC can have their own midi tracks, there's no real need to send midi from PC to PC at all via the System Link network, though you can. But if you end up overloading by a fat chance with too many midi tracks (again not needed), then simply run your audio separate from the System Link ring network.
There is no real 'master or slave' in a System Link network as often misunderstood, each machine has control over all other PC's in the network (start/stop etc). Each user can have their own video screen for their own PC to see what they're doing, but would be difficult to have every user, have a screen of all the 'other' users, and that's not necessary anyway.
Once you know HOW to set up and use System Link properly, it's a lot easier than you think. It's all in the Cubase PDF manuals, which I would suggest reading it over & over.
Personally I feel VST System Link is the most versatile option for using multiple computers, unlike with Ethernet, System Link allows you to have your midi tracks & VSTi's on that local machine, and you do not need to send midi between machines at all. Also, if you're just a single user, System link allows you to work with only ONE PC at a time as needed, instead of running all PC's all the time....say you start your project on your dedicated VSTi machine (as I always do)...you do all your midi tracks & VSTi set ups in that machine, and work for days on end with just that machine turned on. When ready for audio tracks, sync up a 2nd machine, send a temporary stereo audio 'sub-mix' via your System Link digital cables to your dedicated audio machine, and work on audio tracks for days on end with just THAT ONE machine turned on. You can see you don't have to always have ALL machines turned on full time, making noise, using electricity etc, and only sync up extra machines as needed. Just idea's here
Many people have a problem with each PC needed an audio interface, I don't see the big deal here...I've bought several 'used' audio cards, that originally sold new for $700-$800 for less than $100 each...I call that smart shopping! All my extra PC's are built to the same specs as my original PC, built with all used parts, costing just a fraction of the original machine.
PS; Here's a list of Cubase users who've posted System Link compatible audio interfaces that may be helpful...
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 19#p431019
System Link over multiple computers works as desired by the OP at the start of his thread.
What's needed in each computer (PC or Mac) is a VST System Link capable Steinberg product, Cubase, Nuendo, VSTack etc...it doesn't have to the latest versions, nor expensive flag ship versions. All version come with VST System Link starting with Cubase SX1 (actually was available with VST 5/32's last update but only works one-way) If each person in the band buys their own version of Cubase, (new or used) the cost is divided. I've seen older used legitimate Cubase versions for sale on eBay for dirt cheap.
Each computer needs an audio interface with a digital I/O connection, cards with s/pdif are affordable. It's 'recommended' best to use an audio interface in each computer to be of the same manufacturer....just so that everything is compatible throughout (for mostly clocking I believe).
VST System link works in a 'ring' network...all digital cables go in & out of each PC's audio interfaces....going out from the 1st PC's interface, then in & out of the next, and so on, until going back into the last PC's interface.
As said, all PC's need to use the same sample rate, and I believe bit rate to work. Also they must each use the same Tempo. You set just ONE PC to the sample rate, say 44.1 KHz, and all others to 'follow' whatever you're using, s/pdif lightpipe etc. You need to choose a digital I/O in your sound card, and within Cubase. In the case of s/pdif, one cable is stereo. You choose the 'same channel' for your input/output...eg; channel 9 in/out. This I/O channel routing configuration is where most people go wrong....as well as going wrong on the above ...(eg; one PC set to 44.1 KHz, all others set to s/pdif to follow).
Each PC's host (Cubase) can have their own 'everything' and 'anything'...this means their own audio & midi tracks, VSTi's, FX's etc. Each PC user can monitor themselves AND 'everyone else' from their own headphone jack, just as long as you've selected the correct monitoring. Eventually you may want to bring each PC's stereo audio together into a mixer, then into loud speakers if say, performing live. Alternatively, you can bring each PC users stereo audio into one of the PC's audio interface, using it as the effective mixer, but obviously needs the appropriate number of audio inputs.
Cables are just going to be a part of it, period! The System Link data AND stereo audio from each PC can all go through the digital cables from PC to PC, as well as some midi data, being the System Link data only takes up '1 bit' of data. That's the MINIMUM cabling involved, and it works...well besides headphones on each. Since each PC can have their own midi tracks, there's no real need to send midi from PC to PC at all via the System Link network, though you can. But if you end up overloading by a fat chance with too many midi tracks (again not needed), then simply run your audio separate from the System Link ring network.
There is no real 'master or slave' in a System Link network as often misunderstood, each machine has control over all other PC's in the network (start/stop etc). Each user can have their own video screen for their own PC to see what they're doing, but would be difficult to have every user, have a screen of all the 'other' users, and that's not necessary anyway.
Once you know HOW to set up and use System Link properly, it's a lot easier than you think. It's all in the Cubase PDF manuals, which I would suggest reading it over & over.
Personally I feel VST System Link is the most versatile option for using multiple computers, unlike with Ethernet, System Link allows you to have your midi tracks & VSTi's on that local machine, and you do not need to send midi between machines at all. Also, if you're just a single user, System link allows you to work with only ONE PC at a time as needed, instead of running all PC's all the time....say you start your project on your dedicated VSTi machine (as I always do)...you do all your midi tracks & VSTi set ups in that machine, and work for days on end with just that machine turned on. When ready for audio tracks, sync up a 2nd machine, send a temporary stereo audio 'sub-mix' via your System Link digital cables to your dedicated audio machine, and work on audio tracks for days on end with just THAT ONE machine turned on. You can see you don't have to always have ALL machines turned on full time, making noise, using electricity etc, and only sync up extra machines as needed. Just idea's here
Many people have a problem with each PC needed an audio interface, I don't see the big deal here...I've bought several 'used' audio cards, that originally sold new for $700-$800 for less than $100 each...I call that smart shopping! All my extra PC's are built to the same specs as my original PC, built with all used parts, costing just a fraction of the original machine.
PS; Here's a list of Cubase users who've posted System Link compatible audio interfaces that may be helpful...
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 19#p431019
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- KVRist
- 113 posts since 3 Dec, 2005
More for the archives... and update for a newer discovery...
Recently I purchased a ShinyBow SB-5588 8X8 Matrix Switcher router that has all RCA type connections. Any input can be sent to any output, or any input sent to any number of outlets simultaneously with distribution amplification circuitry.
I had already discovered that the VST System Link network doesn't absolutely HAVE to be configured in a 'ring' network, although that's the typical way of doing it. With experimentation, I realized that the 1st PC can just feed the 2nd PC with say an s/pdif coax cable, and the 2nd will follow. But without the ring network (s/pdif back), the 2nd PC can't follow the 1st.
Using multiple PC's and at times only one at a time, or a few at a time as needed, I then thought about some kind of switcher, one that could be able to send an s/pdif signal from one PC to any other PC, or from one PC to multiple PC's simultaneously. After researching I discovered Matrix Switching units, they can come with all kinds of available connections. I sought out for one that had s/pdif RCA type digital coax connections. I settled on the ShinyBow 5588, which is actually a composite video, analog & digital audio device. I got it just for it's digital audio I/O.
Just today I hooked it all up...each PC's sound cards s/pdif I/O going directly into the Matrix Switcher. Set it up and tested it out, and was successfully able to send VST System Link from ONE machine to ALL others simultaneously, each PC follows perfectly without a hitch, and is not even connected in a 'ring' network, it's not needed anymore.
A Matrix Switcher allows for the most versatile set up, which can be reconfigured in any combination with the PC's involvedwith the pressing of some buttons. This means that any number of PC slaves receives from the sending master the same exact VST System Link data & audio 'simultaneously', where as in the 'ring' network, you have to go from PC to PC in succession, adding a tiny bit of latency with each PC.
You normally have to set one PC to act as the master clocking device (set to Int 44.1 Khz) , and the others to follow (others set to s/pdif) anyway. With a Matrix Switcher you can't press play on any PC anymore (as you could in the ring network) for all to follow ... until you Matrix Switch the PC you want to be the one you're controlling, which is the one to be set as the master clock device. It's a few more steps to take, but if you're using anywhere from just one PC at a time (that;s what I use most of the time), or need to run 2 or several PC's at other times, the Matrix Switch comes in handy....otherwise, you'd have to disconnect & reconnect the digital cables as needed.
Recently I purchased a ShinyBow SB-5588 8X8 Matrix Switcher router that has all RCA type connections. Any input can be sent to any output, or any input sent to any number of outlets simultaneously with distribution amplification circuitry.
I had already discovered that the VST System Link network doesn't absolutely HAVE to be configured in a 'ring' network, although that's the typical way of doing it. With experimentation, I realized that the 1st PC can just feed the 2nd PC with say an s/pdif coax cable, and the 2nd will follow. But without the ring network (s/pdif back), the 2nd PC can't follow the 1st.
Using multiple PC's and at times only one at a time, or a few at a time as needed, I then thought about some kind of switcher, one that could be able to send an s/pdif signal from one PC to any other PC, or from one PC to multiple PC's simultaneously. After researching I discovered Matrix Switching units, they can come with all kinds of available connections. I sought out for one that had s/pdif RCA type digital coax connections. I settled on the ShinyBow 5588, which is actually a composite video, analog & digital audio device. I got it just for it's digital audio I/O.
Just today I hooked it all up...each PC's sound cards s/pdif I/O going directly into the Matrix Switcher. Set it up and tested it out, and was successfully able to send VST System Link from ONE machine to ALL others simultaneously, each PC follows perfectly without a hitch, and is not even connected in a 'ring' network, it's not needed anymore.
A Matrix Switcher allows for the most versatile set up, which can be reconfigured in any combination with the PC's involvedwith the pressing of some buttons. This means that any number of PC slaves receives from the sending master the same exact VST System Link data & audio 'simultaneously', where as in the 'ring' network, you have to go from PC to PC in succession, adding a tiny bit of latency with each PC.
You normally have to set one PC to act as the master clocking device (set to Int 44.1 Khz) , and the others to follow (others set to s/pdif) anyway. With a Matrix Switcher you can't press play on any PC anymore (as you could in the ring network) for all to follow ... until you Matrix Switch the PC you want to be the one you're controlling, which is the one to be set as the master clock device. It's a few more steps to take, but if you're using anywhere from just one PC at a time (that;s what I use most of the time), or need to run 2 or several PC's at other times, the Matrix Switch comes in handy....otherwise, you'd have to disconnect & reconnect the digital cables as needed.
