Someone without trust issues?RunBeerRun wrote:Who would even demo/trust a new host from an unknown company?
The company may have been new, but the folk behind it are fairly well known.
What is missing on Bitwig to enter the market with success?
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- KVRian
- 763 posts since 11 Aug, 2014 from a hillside
The company may have been new, but the folk behind it are fairly well known.
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
That's the entire point of a demo, to try a software application to see if it does what you need. If it does what you need, why care who made it? What new software company wasn't an unknown company at first?Who would even demo/trust a new host from an unknown company?
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- KVRAF
- 3897 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Chopper wrote:they did enter with success.
that thread is a complete bashing nonsense.
furthermore, if people want it to be Ableton live+more, they should complain to Ableton....
for a DAW that has been on the market for such a small amount of time, it is doing very well. I am not a user, but I tried it and was impressed. great workflow.
They are competing with Ableton, they offer the same workflow and concepts and even the same interface, that's why they offer features that Live still doesnt have (or hadn't when announced): dual monitor support, audio/midi tracks, per note automation, PDC, etc. And then they are planning a modular enviroment as m4l,
They either get new constumers from people starting out (in that case IMHO they compete with FL Studio) or bring old users of Live which look for the same workflow with improvements, or people looking for the "session view" workflow which are choosing between live and bitwig.
So yeah, I am a Live user and I was interested a lot in Bitwig when it was announced and after trying the demo I was left cold. They have to offer the same and then some to atract a good number of users.
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
All they really need to do is make more money than they spend. That's all. Nothing more. That by definition is success. If that's already the case, no clue. 
The other stuff - who's winning the daw popularity contest - is pretty irrelevant to that. Unless the people behind Bitwig are just... well... retarded (they don't appear to be) ... they can clearly see what all of us can see, that a good majority of DAW users treat them like collector items and buy multiple hosts because they're always searching for the holy grail.
That simple thing makes selling a decent DAW not all that hard.
User buys X, then gets sad or disappointed for some reason, then buys Y, and gets sad or disappointed for some other reason, then X updates with some new cool stuff and they upgrade X, and so on and so on. They (all the DAW companies) seem to be doing relatively ok because of that. It - the daw market - is like a really big candy store.
You can see that with Cubase, which is arguably one of the most complete hosts ever, where many of it's users are constantly looking over the fence, and buying 2-3 other products. It's the nature of the beast... an ongoing game of (no pun intended) musical chairs.
The other stuff - who's winning the daw popularity contest - is pretty irrelevant to that. Unless the people behind Bitwig are just... well... retarded (they don't appear to be) ... they can clearly see what all of us can see, that a good majority of DAW users treat them like collector items and buy multiple hosts because they're always searching for the holy grail.
That simple thing makes selling a decent DAW not all that hard.User buys X, then gets sad or disappointed for some reason, then buys Y, and gets sad or disappointed for some other reason, then X updates with some new cool stuff and they upgrade X, and so on and so on. They (all the DAW companies) seem to be doing relatively ok because of that. It - the daw market - is like a really big candy store.
You can see that with Cubase, which is arguably one of the most complete hosts ever, where many of it's users are constantly looking over the fence, and buying 2-3 other products. It's the nature of the beast... an ongoing game of (no pun intended) musical chairs.
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- KVRAF
- 2912 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC
They clearly are successful. Having dedicated hardware support with Nektar out of the door on day one helped as well. I'll admit I had some issues with it to begin with, and even sold my license... but only because I have a working studio and have projects that require certain software, and Bitwig is not yet one of those. And I was spending a LOT of time with it.
It will be back in my studio before the year is out. I have had some requests for it.
Jon
It will be back in my studio before the year is out. I have had some requests for it.
Jon
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
Yeah. It's just DejaVu, it happens with every new daw, people speculating on if they can be "successful" or not.
It happened with Reaper, Studio One, Ohm Studio, MixBus, every new DAW really. I haven't personally ever seen a decent one (not just a little half daw a guy whipped up in his spare time) start up and then suddenly go under because they couldn't compete with some other product. Not a single one.
I've also never seen anyone come back to a forum 4-5 years later and say...
"Hey, remember when I said X daw would fail in the market? I was obviously dead wrong about that, sorry."
In all honesty, they don't even have to make huge profits to be successful, all they have to do is not lose money... and stay ahead of any debt obligations.
There's a brand new daw whore born every 10 minutes.
It happened with Reaper, Studio One, Ohm Studio, MixBus, every new DAW really. I haven't personally ever seen a decent one (not just a little half daw a guy whipped up in his spare time) start up and then suddenly go under because they couldn't compete with some other product. Not a single one.
I've also never seen anyone come back to a forum 4-5 years later and say...
"Hey, remember when I said X daw would fail in the market? I was obviously dead wrong about that, sorry."
In all honesty, they don't even have to make huge profits to be successful, all they have to do is not lose money... and stay ahead of any debt obligations.
There's a brand new daw whore born every 10 minutes.
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- KVRist
- 169 posts since 9 Dec, 2006
Once they start getting bundled into Midi controllers, prosumer synths, interfaces, etc..."comes with lite version of Bitwig Studio..." They will have more penetration.
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As an aside, it was forward thinking of Mackie and Presonus to say why not just have our own branded DAW? Maybe there will even be a Behringer DAW someday.
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As an aside, it was forward thinking of Mackie and Presonus to say why not just have our own branded DAW? Maybe there will even be a Behringer DAW someday.
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- KVRAF
- 6420 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
And Mackie abandoned Tracktion and sold it back to Jules.gremlinmoon wrote: As an aside, it was forward thinking of Mackie and Presonus to say why not just have our own branded DAW? Maybe there will even be a Behringer DAW someday.
Roland bought Cakewalk and now sold it off to Gibson.
For Behringer, I don't think it works. You need to have a top rated daw as lite version to make it attractive - meaning you must be in daw market too, and making a brand of it.
Maybe it works for Presonus, I don't know. If so they are alone pretty much.
Avid is doing this daw/hardware thingy and are in trouble as it seems with turning their license policy into subscriptions - once out you have to buy a new license if not renewing. Integrated with hardware does not seem to do the trick either.
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
Don't forget what may be (not certain though) the first or one of the first hardware companies to do that... MOTU / DP. That goes back almost 30 years, to 1985 I think... but it didn't get audio until 1990 or so.
An audio hardware company having it's own DAW is probably a good thing, but only if they're fully committed to it for the long haul. Mackie apparently wasn't.
But re: DP... when I demoed it the most surprsing thing to me was not really anything the DAW itself could or couldn't do musically, but more what seemed to be a lack of really deep integration with their hardware. You'd think after 30 years of making both a DAW and audio hardware in house that the integration would be miles above anything else on the market.
Otoh, I might have just missed some things, dunno.
An audio hardware company having it's own DAW is probably a good thing, but only if they're fully committed to it for the long haul. Mackie apparently wasn't.
But re: DP... when I demoed it the most surprsing thing to me was not really anything the DAW itself could or couldn't do musically, but more what seemed to be a lack of really deep integration with their hardware. You'd think after 30 years of making both a DAW and audio hardware in house that the integration would be miles above anything else on the market.
Otoh, I might have just missed some things, dunno.
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- KVRist
- 322 posts since 8 Apr, 2012
Side-chaining of VST/AU plugins.
(A new product name. Bitwig, seriously?
)
(A new product name. Bitwig, seriously?
)Bitwig
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- KVRAF
- 35277 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Well they were going to call it Bigwit but were concerned everybody would think it was a joke.krixa wrote:Side-chaining of VST/AU plugins.
(A new product name. Bitwig, seriously?
Maybe they should rename it to Toupée?
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CrazyLittleSomething CrazyLittleSomething https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=339012
- KVRist
- 84 posts since 3 Oct, 2014 from Amsterdam
Changes in Bitwig Studio 1.1 BETA 1krixa wrote:Side-chaining of VST/AU plugins.
(A new product name. Bitwig, seriously?
Released on 10.09.2014
"NEW Support for VST side-chaining."
1.1 BETA 6 is just released. AU support is not promised in BWS version 1 FYI.
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- KVRist
- 322 posts since 8 Apr, 2012
Cool! Is BETA only available to registered customers or is there a trial-version too?CrazyLittleSomething wrote: Changes in Bitwig Studio 1.1 BETA 1
Released on 10.09.2014
"NEW Support for VST side-chaining."
1.1 BETA 6 is just released. AU support is not promised in BWS version 1 FYI.
Bitwig
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- KVRAF
- 6155 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
There's one thing in particular that I really liked when I demoed CatWig, the way the detached windows work.
I found that to be really nice, to detach a window and look at it an have all the menus and controls just like on the main window, on all the detached windows. Can't say I've seen that before but I liked it, the extended continuity.
No idea if that's a common "Java UI" window thing or just something they decided to do, but I've never seen floating Windows windows share main menus that way.
I found that to be really nice, to detach a window and look at it an have all the menus and controls just like on the main window, on all the detached windows. Can't say I've seen that before but I liked it, the extended continuity.
No idea if that's a common "Java UI" window thing or just something they decided to do, but I've never seen floating Windows windows share main menus that way.
