What's the best semi-weighted 49 key midi keyboard?

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Got my A-49 today, the keys feel the same as on the A-300 I had before, no idea if they are semi-weighted. There is resistance of course, but not of the piano kind at all. Still, they feel solid, unlike the case of the keyboard, which is a bit less solid than on the A-300. The plastic seems cheaper, nor is it white as shown on the images, it is more like beige, which adds to the cheap feel of the case. But in terms of functionality I like it much better than my old A-300 :)

Gee, finally I can mess around with music again, those almost 3 weeks felt like an eternity :hihi: And those additional 1.5 octaves make all the difference, especially with my Rhodes emulation :)

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fluffy_little_something wrote:Got my A-49 today, the keys feel the same as on the A-300 I had before
Sounds like your experience is confirming my guess. I guessed Roland just used the same keyboards it uses on its more expensive synths on the A-49, with minimal features and basic casing to make the price point. This is not a complaint, it lets me have a good quality keyboard for a low budget starting out.
fluffy_little_something wrote:And those additional 1.5 octaves make all the difference, especially with my Rhodes emulation :)
Yeah, I was confused by whether to get 29 keys or 49. But once I got 49, no way I'm going back to 29. For anyone starting out, I advise getting a 49 key.
My latest crazy track "The Quick Brown Fox sampled the Lazy Dog": http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=425647
15 Free DIVA Presets: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p5892108

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Yes, they seem to be the almost same keys. I do think the ones on the A-49 feel a bit better, actually, the travel down seems more "linear", hard to describe, as if they had an improved spring mechanism. They also seem to make slightly less mechanical noise.

Though much fewer, the controls also look and feel better in my view. The lights are much better to see and when pressing the buttons you feel that resistance at the end of the travel, while the A-300's buttons were a bit wishy-washy. The octave indicators are very useful and missing on the A-300. The D-Beam controller is also missing on the A-300, but I am not so sure yet whether it is a useful control. It lacks AT via the keyboard, though. It does send AT via the D-Beam controller and pedal.

I would not even say that it is a budget keyboard. In view of the very few mechanical controls and missing display and AT, the rest is probably the same quality level as the A-xxx Pro series, even what seems to be a flimsier case might be due to the fact that is is simply 1.5 octaves longer and 2 to 3 inches less deep, which automatically makes it more vulnerable to torsion.

I had expected more latency because in the specs it does not mention the high-speed USB interface used on the A-xxx Pro series, but fortunately I don't notice any difference at all :) I guess they use the same USB interface and keyboard, but don't mention it so that people keep buying the more expensive Pro series models.

I am very happy with it so far :)

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EnGee: I will be doing both. I'm into Progressive rock/metal, and they use both piano and electronic sounds in their music, so I'll be doing the same.

What do you guys think of the keystation 61es? I bought it used a month or so ago for a great deal. The keys are semi-weighted, but they are sticky and have too much spring compared to the regular axiom 49/61 and novation impulse that I had been thinking about. I still want to get a semi-weighted 49/61 key with knobs/sliders, etc. I'm leaning towards the novation impulse 49 or maybe 61 if I can find a good deal or afford it.

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3ptguitarist wrote:EnGee: I will be doing both. I'm into Progressive rock/metal, and they use both piano and electronic sounds in their music, so I'll be doing the same.

What do you guys think of the keystation 61es? I bought it used a month or so ago for a great deal. The keys are semi-weighted, but they are sticky and have too much spring compared to the regular axiom 49/61 and novation impulse that I had been thinking about. I still want to get a semi-weighted 49/61 key with knobs/sliders, etc. I'm leaning towards the novation impulse 49 or maybe 61 if I can find a good deal or afford it.
I suggest then to have two portable keyboards. I think this is what you are going to end with. If you are going to play Piano/Electric Piano, the semi weighted keys won't cut it really. Even if you are a beginner (like me) in piano, you would not be able to play correctly and if in the future, you will have a piano teacher (Jazz or Classic or ...), he/she would tell you to buy weighted keys. So, there is no escape IMO, if you want to play piano, you need a piano keys (fully weighted), because there are many techniques you would learn in the future that can't be played really well in the semi-weighted.

For electronic music/Drums programming ..etc, just buy one that you liked the feel of. Personally I feel very satisfied with Oxygen 49. I don't have Ableton Live now, but I got my hands dirty and edited one preset in Sonar X3 and now I can control the DAW with the Play/Record/Stop/Rewind ..etc buttons. I can also control the Mixer with the sliders (for Volume) and knobs (for Pan) but they can be mapped to other functions in the Mixer or Track view ..etc. There are also 3 mappings per preset I think. So, there are good options in Sonar X3 if you choose it. In Reason, There is already a template for Oxygen 49 so most controls are working great, and I can of course change synth controls by Midi Learn.

I remember that Novation Impulse was in my top list really. I loved it, but equally the Axiom of M-Audio! The keys are better than Oxygen 49 (not that much really, but they are better and at the double price!). I feel really I made a good decision by buying the Oxygen and saved for the Digital Piano.

Plan your goals, space, savings ..etc, and don't buy one thing fits all! This solution is expensive really! (Kronos 88?). Other thing might help you when deciding for a DP might be Piano World Forums. They know their piano things very well.

I like this Preview by PainoManChuck in YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq-Czb-Ramg

In the end buy something that you really like because this is what you are going to use. The good feel of the product gives a calm satisfied feeling that helps in playing.

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chk071 wrote:I don't know where you are located, but here (germany), when you order something online, you have 2 weeks to send the product back, if you don't like it for some reason. So if you don't like what you ordered, you can easily send it back.

I don't have much of a comparison (i had a synth action keyboard before the Axiom), but IMO, the keys on the Axiom feel ok. Not shaky, not too hard or stiff. The aftertouch is not really good though IMO. It takes way too much pressure to activate it, and the range of velocity, or however you want to call it, is pretty narrow. Which means, you can't accurately get to a value of, say, 80. I never use aftertouch though, so it's fine for me. If you have a bit larger budget, you could try the Novation Impulse keyboard. It got pretty good rating in the press.
You can send it back before 14 days here as well (Norway), but you have to pay for shipping.

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I don't agree that one needs fully weighted keys just in order to play pianos well. It's just a matter of getting used to non-weighted keys. Plus, with good synth-type MIDI keyboards you can change the velocity curve to hard, soft, exponential, linear etc. That also allows you to get very close to the weighted key behavior.

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I don't think I'll be a piano expert or play very intricate or technical pieces right now. I'm just gonna make music for fun for now. If I get more serious in the future and/or I have the money, I may consider a weighted keyboard.

I figure a semi-weighted keyboard will be fine for my current goals.

I'm concreed about the feel of the oxygen keys. How are they compared to the keystation 49 and 61?

Thanks for the advice everyone.

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I tried the Impulse out and the keyboard action is sweet, and is well-equipped with knobs and sliders and key mapping.
If I was willing to spend more on a keyboard controller I'd get that.
My latest crazy track "The Quick Brown Fox sampled the Lazy Dog": http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=425647
15 Free DIVA Presets: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p5892108

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For what it's worth, I have both the Novation Impulse and 2 Oxygen 49s (thanks to one inexplicably blowing up and the part I needed being more expensive than buying it new. I bought the second one very used and very cheap and cannibalized it). I also have an Arturia 61 (I ordered and paid for a 49 but they sent the 61 and didn't want me to return it). :shrug: If you take the Oxygen apart as I have, you will discover that it is very cheaply made and a wonder that it plays as well as it does. Of these, I like the feel of the Impulse best but then I haven't seen how the keybed is made either. Maybe like sausage, you don't want to know how it was made, as they say! YMMV.
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fluffy_little_something wrote:I don't agree that one needs fully weighted keys just in order to play pianos well. It's just a matter of getting used to non-weighted keys.
There's more to the action of real piano keys than the weight. The movement they make and the weight they have contributes to certain playing styles that would be very difficult to do with a semi-weighted keybed.

For example, when playing notes stacatto you can quickly "pop" the keys and the momentum from the weight and counter-balance will cause them to strike the note. This allows you to re-position your hands for the next notes in the phrase.

Another thing that separates a good piano action from semi-weighted keybeds is the same striking force can be applied anywhere on the key surface for the same velocity. This is crucial when playing chords that require you to move your hand far up on the keys. Without this the notes will have different volume levels.

The weight and travel of the keys also contribute to playing trills and quick successions of the same repeated note. Both of which I have trouble doing with a synth or semi-weighted keybed.

If you just want to play a few chords or a simple melody then a semi-weighted keybed is just fine. If, however, you are playing a piece that is intended to be a piano you'll come up short in some instances. It's like trying to play convincing guitar solos on a midi keyboard. It's possible, but it's tricky and often requires editing of the midi afterwards.

And get a sustain pedal. It's a huge part of the piano's sound and is often overlooked by non-pianists.

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EnGee wrote:I feel really I made a good decision by buying the Oxygen and saved for the Digital Piano.
Looks like we're in the same boat. :)

I use an Oxygen v3 61-key for my synths/DAW and a standalone Kawai MP11 for piano. I love the combination. Organs/synths on the Oxygen and EPs/Pianos on the MP11.

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bmrzycki wrote:
EnGee wrote:I feel really I made a good decision by buying the Oxygen and saved for the Digital Piano.
Looks like we're in the same boat. :)
Yes! we are and I agree completely with your explanation :)
I use an Oxygen v3 61-key for my synths/DAW and a standalone Kawai MP11 for piano. I love the combination. Organs/synths on the Oxygen and EPs/Pianos on the MP11.
The Kawai MP11 is from the best stage pianos out there. I read and watched so many videos about it. It seems with a very high quality built (Lucky you ;) ) If things go well, I might upgrade after few years to it (or to the Roland RD-800, but I think Kawai MP11 has a higher quality built and higher price of course!).

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EnGee wrote:The Kawai MP11 is from the best stage pianos out there. I read and watched so many videos about it. It seems with a very high quality built (Lucky you ;) ) If things go well, I might upgrade after few years to it (or to the Roland RD-800, but I think Kawai MP11 has a higher quality built and higher price of course!).
I love my MP11 so much. It's a dream to play, both in sound and feel. I saved up for 8 months to get one and had to wait a month after ordering, they're constantly back-ordered. I can say it's completely worth it though. The action feels almost identical to my teacher's Steinway baby grand (the Kawai has a slightly lighter feel by default). I plan on using this keyboard for (I hope) the next 10 years and consider it an investment. And when you look at the price of comperable keyboards in the same class by Korg, Nord, Yamaha, Roland, and Kurzweil it's often less expensive than the competition! I have no idea how they do that and have real wooden keys.

I'll stop derailing the thread with me gushing about my keyboard. :) If you have any questions about the MP11 feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to answer them.

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bmrzycki wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:I don't agree that one needs fully weighted keys just in order to play pianos well. It's just a matter of getting used to non-weighted keys.
There's more to the action of real piano keys than the weight. The movement they make and the weight they have contributes to certain playing styles that would be very difficult to do with a semi-weighted keybed.

For example, when playing notes stacatto you can quickly "pop" the keys and the momentum from the weight and counter-balance will cause them to strike the note. This allows you to re-position your hands for the next notes in the phrase.

Another thing that separates a good piano action from semi-weighted keybeds is the same striking force can be applied anywhere on the key surface for the same velocity. This is crucial when playing chords that require you to move your hand far up on the keys. Without this the notes will have different volume levels.

The weight and travel of the keys also contribute to playing trills and quick successions of the same repeated note. Both of which I have trouble doing with a synth or semi-weighted keybed.

If you just want to play a few chords or a simple melody then a semi-weighted keybed is just fine. If, however, you are playing a piece that is intended to be a piano you'll come up short in some instances. It's like trying to play convincing guitar solos on a midi keyboard. It's possible, but it's tricky and often requires editing of the midi afterwards.

And get a sustain pedal. It's a huge part of the piano's sound and is often overlooked by non-pianists.
If someone is a trained pianist and wants to play solo classical music or Jazz like Oscar Peterson, they will not look for a 49-key Midi keyboard, be it semi-weighted or not weighted at all. And for everything else a quality synth-action keyboard with various velocity curves and levels will suffice to emulate most aspects of a weighted keyboard.
I used to have a digital piano with weighted keys. Of course it felt very different when I switched to a synth-action keyboard. But it was simply a matter of getting used to it. Actually I prefer synth-action keys now. They are more appropriate for most synth sounds such as basses, pads etc. I can't imagine playing a Moog-like synth bass on weighted keys, I never tried it on the digital piano since it didn't even have a pitch bender.

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