Does an IPAD have similar computing power than a PC to power those synths?

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:you literally piss yourself (as in, piss running down your leg with anticipation and excitement) everytime something mac, or ipad-related shows up in the 'latest posts' sidebar, don't you ?? :roll:
Just checking my seat, it's still dry

So people daring not to like the iCrap, really get the Apple fanboi juices flowing, is that so :P

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The iPad Air has very good performance.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/ios-benchmarks

Similar to a Core 2 Duo 2,6 processor per core.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

But most plug-ins are using MMX/SSE instructions to speed up algorithms. iPad or Android tablets (not Surface since they are using Intel chips) have to use ARM NEON, which most programmers don't know how to implement or convert.

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chk071 wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: you aren't really making sense to me, anymore. ios is very efficient with lower-spec'd hardware, and android doesn't seem able to know what to do with the power it has

yes, people will pay extra for the 'prestige', but they wouldn't do if the phone was a piece of shit :roll: there's no prestige in having a phone that doesn't work properly.
Hm, i must admit i don't get your point either. When did i say the phone was a piece of shit? Why would there be any prestige about it if it was a piece of shit? But you know, a shiny, glancy surface can sometimes hide an aged interior. All that i am saying is that Apple devices are, although priced high end, not up to par with comparable (price) high end devices. Like it or not, it's like that. I don't know if you read it, but there are people who screwed apart the new iPhone, and guessed that the single components cost a total of 150 € in manufacturing. Of course, you have to add distribution costs and anything else to it, which is necessary to sell and develop the device, but you can figure, if you add those to it, what the profit margin is. And that that profit margin is a bit larger than on Samsung's Android phones.
i am not arguing there is not a huge mark-up. other companies would do the same if they could get away with it. are you telling me that samsung et al aren't marking up their high-end phones ?? (that's rhetorical). all electronics, nay ALL PRODUCTS are priced at more than the some of their parts. that's just business. if you like the end product, and it performs a function you 'need', then the manufacturing cost is of little importance.

apple is priced high-end, partly because they can, but also because people dig the aesthetic AND THE PERFORMANCE/EXPERIENCE. and, once again, your "aged interior" argument means very little in real-world terms

while i do like how my ipad communicates with my mac, more than my old android did, it is the music apps that keep me with ios. i can offset (and rationalise) the extra expense, every time i pick up what is essentially a mobile studio (i spent more on my first 4-track portastudio than my ipad. the comparison is almost surreal). if android ever get it together and, more importantly, if developers decide to take on the hassle of compatibility between android manufacturers (even those that make cheap shit tablets for supermarkets), then maybe i'll reconsider. maybe windows developers will have more made-for-touch music apps ready

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Thanks for the info George. Granted, Apple did realize the signs of the time lately. Especially with the tough competition they're facing from Android, they won't be able to sell hardware which is not state of the art anymore. Especially when people lay the new iPhone under a microscope, and check it for any flaw.

@ el-bo: I don't think we're that far off in opinions even. You named all the things i wanted to name too. :) I don't think Apple is doing anything bad either. They're serving a certain market, which i am not part of. I'd like to try an iOS device some day for the audio app stuff alone, but i wouldn't think about spending 600 € for something, when the majority of things i would want to do with it on a daily base can also be done with a device which costs 1/3 of what an iPhone costs. for me, that's not reasonable.

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UltraJv wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:It does run faster, I have it enabled on this kit kat nexus 7 I'm using to reply. As for music work, that argument is null and void. Anyone can make music on spoons, washboard or stylaphone. It's the usual story, its not the tools, its the musician.
except, your n=1 experience doesn't answer your initial query about how ART would have affected the comparison benchmarks

the music argument is not null and void. if the tools inhibit the musician by, ooh let's say, introducing delays that f**k with the timing of a musical performance, then the musician can't necessarily be blamed. up to this point, android hasn't been a viable proposition for music apps. let's see what occurs down the line
I can make music on Android, if you can't then that's your problem. If you want limitations, iOS will never have plugins no matter how much power the CPU so can never have a full blown daw as per PC/Mac. You need the audiobus kludge. Android has lower latency in L. It can have plugs too
yeah, and i can make music with my fat arse. that aint the point. latency stopped me playing the thing in real-time. maybe that's not an issue now. now, let's wait for some more apps to show up. until that point, and realising that i COULD make android music, i'ma stick with the machine with the better selection

of course, might as well bring it back to how it pales in comparison to a full daw experience. who cares about plugs ?? apart from a few who make a challenge of an ipad-only album, most don't view the ipad as a replacement. audiobus is perfectly capable for simple routings, such as might be needed to capture some ideas.

you want to use the argument about how ipad will never be able to run plugs, or replace a daw, from the position of using a system that has take years to barely get out of the gate. meanwhile, ios music-making is a very viable option for many folks

your biggest problem is going to be convincing al of these plug developers to actually develop for the sprawling mess of different hardware that makes up the android market

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Numanoid wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:you literally piss yourself (as in, piss running down your leg with anticipation and excitement) everytime something mac, or ipad-related shows up in the 'latest posts' sidebar, don't you ?? :roll:
Just checking my seat, it's still dry

So people daring not to like the iCrap, really get the Apple fanboi juices flowing, is that so :P
as i said, it's perfectly fine not to like it. you just don't get that others might have many justifiable reasons to do so. calling people fanbois for daring to counter your baited, stick-poking provocation, with reasoned argument is just an idiot move that i have seen you pull on a few occasions

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chk071 wrote:but i wouldn't think about spending 600 € for something, when the majority of things i would want to do with it on a daily base can also be done with a device which costs 1/3 of what an iPhone costs. for me, that's not reasonable.
it's really pretty simple. if you want to explore mobile music, it's worth it. if not, it is not likely to be. the minute you factor in the price of the music apps, the extra expense easily works out

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:It does run faster, I have it enabled on this kit kat nexus 7 I'm using to reply. As for music work, that argument is null and void. Anyone can make music on spoons, washboard or stylaphone. It's the usual story, its not the tools, its the musician.
except, your n=1 experience doesn't answer your initial query about how ART would have affected the comparison benchmarks

the music argument is not null and void. if the tools inhibit the musician by, ooh let's say, introducing delays that f**k with the timing of a musical performance, then the musician can't necessarily be blamed. up to this point, android hasn't been a viable proposition for music apps. let's see what occurs down the line
I can make music on Android, if you can't then that's your problem. If you want limitations, iOS will never have plugins no matter how much power the CPU so can never have a full blown daw as per PC/Mac. You need the audiobus kludge. Android has lower latency in L. It can have plugs too
yeah, and i can make music with my fat arse. that aint the point. latency stopped me playing the thing in real-time. maybe that's not an issue now. now, let's wait for some more apps to show up. until that point, and realising that i COULD make android music, i'ma stick with the machine with the better selection

of course, might as well bring it back to how it pales in comparison to a full daw experience. who cares about plugs ?? apart from a few who make a challenge of an ipad-only album, most don't view the ipad as a replacement. audiobus is perfectly capable for simple routings, such as might be needed to capture some ideas.

you want to use the argument about how ipad will never be able to run plugs, or replace a daw, from the position of using a system that has take years to barely get out of the gate. meanwhile, ios music-making is a very viable option for many folks

your biggest problem is going to be convincing al of these plug developers to actually develop for the sprawling mess of different hardware that makes up the android market
I don't have to convince anyone of anything. I'm happy with my nexus 7. I can use it for all the same tasks you can with an iPad. I chose not to buy iPad due to cost and iTunes. You keep on about latency, it's being worked on. I know you dont want to hear that but its addressed in Android L. Latency doesn't stop me doing anything. Maybe you need to look at audio evolution. Its a serious daw for android with low latency USB device support :hihi:
Last edited by UltraJv on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UltraJv wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:It does run faster, I have it enabled on this kit kat nexus 7 I'm using to reply. As for music work, that argument is null and void. Anyone can make music on spoons, washboard or stylaphone. It's the usual story, its not the tools, its the musician.
except, your n=1 experience doesn't answer your initial query about how ART would have affected the comparison benchmarks

the music argument is not null and void. if the tools inhibit the musician by, ooh let's say, introducing delays that f**k with the timing of a musical performance, then the musician can't necessarily be blamed. up to this point, android hasn't been a viable proposition for music apps. let's see what occurs down the line
I can make music on Android, if you can't then that's your problem. If you want limitations, iOS will never have plugins no matter how much power the CPU so can never have a full blown daw as per PC/Mac. You need the audiobus kludge. Android has lower latency in L. It can have plugs too
yeah, and i can make music with my fat arse. that aint the point. latency stopped me playing the thing in real-time. maybe that's not an issue now. now, let's wait for some more apps to show up. until that point, and realising that i COULD make android music, i'ma stick with the machine with the better selection

of course, might as well bring it back to how it pales in comparison to a full daw experience. who cares about plugs ?? apart from a few who make a challenge of an ipad-only album, most don't view the ipad as a replacement. audiobus is perfectly capable for simple routings, such as might be needed to capture some ideas.

you want to use the argument about how ipad will never be able to run plugs, or replace a daw, from the position of using a system that has take years to barely get out of the gate. meanwhile, ios music-making is a very viable option for many folks

your biggest problem is going to be convincing al of these plug developers to actually develop for the sprawling mess of different hardware that makes up the android market
I don't have to convince anyone of anything. I'm happy with my nexus 7. I can use it for all the same tasks you can with an iPad. I chose not to buy iPad due to cost and iTunes. You keep on about latency, it's being worked on. I know you dont want to hear that but its addressed in Android L. Latency doesn't stop me doing anything. :D
actually, it stops you from using all the apps that aren't on android (many of which never will be). as long as you are happy with what you can do, that's all that matters :shrug:

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Audio evolution is a serious android daw with low latency support via USB. It uses special drivers for android right now. Latency isn't an issue unless you want it to be. Not everyone needs a Steinway or Gibson to make music.

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UltraJv wrote:Audio evolution is a serious android daw with low latency support via USB. Latency isn't an issue unless you want it to be.
i don't know if you are deliberately missing my point.

i am not saying that music apps (even very capable apps), won't continue to appear on android. there will be nothing to stop an android user making music. what i am saying is that i am not sure how many of the ios developers will be bothered to migrate their apps over to the android platform. i have heard andy from 'camel' comment that it isn't the latency that really stops alchemy coming to android, rather it is the logistics of ensuring compatibility across the different hardware. it's one thing for each iteration of ios to break compatibility, and something else when considering all the android hardware combinations

why would any company want to suffer all the one-star reviews from kids with 'tesco' tablets, who suffered shoddy performance, despite this 30-quid tablet having an octo-core, and 100gig of ram ??

reminds me of renting videos in the 80's. sure, if you owned betamax then you'd definitely be able to watch some films. the blockbusters were all on vhs though :hihi:

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:Audio evolution is a serious android daw with low latency support via USB. Latency isn't an issue unless you want it to be.
i don't know if you are deliberately missing my point.

i am not saying that music apps (even very capable apps), won't continue to appear on android. there will be nothing to stop an android user making music. what i am saying is that i am not sure how many of the ios developers will be bothered to migrate their apps over to the android platform. i have heard andy from 'camel' comment that it isn't the latency that really stops alchemy coming to android, rather it is the logistics of ensuring compatibility across the different hardware. it's one thing for each iteration of ios to break compatibility, and something else when considering all the android hardware combinations

why would any company want to suffer all the one-star reviews from kids with 'tesco' tablets, who suffered shoddy performance, despite this 30-quid tablet having an octo-core, and 100gig of ram ??

reminds me of renting videos in the 80's. sure, if you owned betamax then you'd definitely be able to watch some films. the blockbusters were all on vhs though :hihi:
Once latency isn't an issue, all companies will have access to more revenue than they could ever have with Apple. That's why they will do it. They will have a base spec requirement of course. No different to applications having a base spec for PC or Mac. :) Saying it will never happen is a poor argument. Apple said they would never go x86. I was told Android won't have decent games, well it has. Android has a higher hardware base, the win is inevitable. Its in the numbers :P

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UltraJv wrote:Not everyone needs a Steinway or Gibson to make music.
oh, of course. now my talent is in question, because i like good quality tools in my toolbox.

fwiw, the best ios music i have heard comes solely from korg's ipolysix. it is a pretty limited app. i am sure even you would find it's lack of features and polish would allow you to be a much more authentic musician, while satisfying your python-esque, "four yorkshiremen" sensibilities

unfortunately, it's ios only :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:Not everyone needs a Steinway or Gibson to make music.
oh, of course. now my talent is in question, because i like good quality tools in my toolbox.

fwiw, the best ios music i have heard comes solely from korg's ipolysix. it is a pretty limited app. i am sure even you would find it's lack of features and polish would allow you to be a much more authentic musician, while satisfying your python-esque, "four yorkshiremen" sensibilities

unfortunately, it's ios only :P

Really? I have it on PC. Without the cut down limitations you have. Where I use it with Nuendo, where I make music. I'm glad you can stab at on iPad. It will never be a plug in on iOS tho :hihi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

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UltraJv wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
UltraJv wrote:Audio evolution is a serious android daw with low latency support via USB. Latency isn't an issue unless you want it to be.
i don't know if you are deliberately missing my point.

i am not saying that music apps (even very capable apps), won't continue to appear on android. there will be nothing to stop an android user making music. what i am saying is that i am not sure how many of the ios developers will be bothered to migrate their apps over to the android platform. i have heard andy from 'camel' comment that it isn't the latency that really stops alchemy coming to android, rather it is the logistics of ensuring compatibility across the different hardware. it's one thing for each iteration of ios to break compatibility, and something else when considering all the android hardware combinations

why would any company want to suffer all the one-star reviews from kids with 'tesco' tablets, who suffered shoddy performance, despite this 30-quid tablet having an octo-core, and 100gig of ram ??

reminds me of renting videos in the 80's. sure, if you owned betamax then you'd definitely be able to watch some films. the blockbusters were all on vhs though :hihi:
Once latency isn't an issue, all companies will have access to more revenue than they could ever have with Apple. That's why they will do it. They will have a base spec requirement of course. No different to applications having a base spec for PC or Mac. :) Saying it will never happen is a poor argument. Apple said they would never go x86. I was told Android won't have decent games, well it has. Android has a higher hardware base, the win is inevitable. Its in the numbers :P
did i say it will never happen ??

common base spec is not the only issue, it's also about components

the win is not inevitable. it just depends on each developer to decide whether the headache is worth it

of course, if you are right, won't you have to look for another under-dog platform, for the authenticity which comes with sculpting musical treasures with sub-par tools ?? :roll:

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