Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

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The Drop

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+1

I always fear the worst when it comes to challenge/response (company going defunct, offline activation servers, etc). I'm hoping that it goes back to serial number. I'm also a huge fan of PSP Audioware's keyfile system. Either way, it can't possibly be as bad as some other companies (cough IK cough).

-Sam

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Serious question: what magic is The Drop doing? Particularly on the high-pass filter… I can high-pass pretty much any source, jack up the resonance, and get a FAT sub without any change in level and barely any change in spectral content. It's absolutely unbelievable and I'm curious what's going on w/ The Drop under the hood that other filters aren't doing...

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padillac wrote:Serious question: what magic is The Drop doing? Particularly on the high-pass filter… I can high-pass pretty much any source, jack up the resonance, and get a FAT sub without any change in level and barely any change in spectral content. It's absolutely unbelievable and I'm curious what's going on w/ The Drop under the hood that other filters aren't doing...
This shouldn't be the case, as you probably know... But if it really behaves like that, I wouldn't call it 'magic', quite the opposite!

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djanthonyw wrote:
andy-cytomic wrote:News: The Drop v1.x will be available for all existing customers to download on Friday 3rd October 12:00pm AWST (+8 GMT). It contains a new challenge response copy protection system that will be online activation only for a few weeks. I'll get a trial build and offline activation working in the following weeks after this first release. Thanks for everyone that has been so patient for so long, it will be worth the wait!
Copy protection is changing? Is this for all formats of The Drop? I really love the way it is now and am not too keen with challenge / response / online activation. Is this supposed to happen with The Glue as well?
Yes, I have been letting you know I've been updating the copy protection system for a long time now, and yes this will be for all Cytomic plugins. My current digital watermarking system does not support binary signing via Gatekeeper (Mac) and Code Signing (Win) which will become more and more of an issue in the future, and this is the only way I can also do an AAX build of my plugins since they need to be signed before they ProTools will even load them.

I also want to support bulk licensing in a secure way for education and studios, so I need a way to allow multiple (but capped) authorisations on a single serial, and challenge response achieves this. I am using the system drive's id, so you will not have to re-authorise unless you format your hard drive, or swap to a new hard drive, both of which don't happen very often, and both of those are pretty drastic procedures that typically require further maintenance anyway. If you can suggest a better non-dongle solution then I'm all ears!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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masterhiggins wrote:+1

I always fear the worst when it comes to challenge/response (company going defunct, offline activation servers, etc). I'm hoping that it goes back to serial number. I'm also a huge fan of PSP Audioware's keyfile system. Either way, it can't possibly be as bad as some other companies (cough IK cough).

-Sam
I will continue to run a server that supports activations for a very long time - it only costs USD 10 / month to do so. The entire system is written for both php and c using standard libraries (openssl), and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers. So you are covered multiple ways and will always be able to authorise the software you have paid for. The command line tool and the plugin are built using exactly the same code base, so as long as one will run so will the other, in fact I suspect that the command line tool will run for longer since it has no complications with guis and loading in third party hosts.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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padillac wrote:Serious question: what magic is The Drop doing? Particularly on the high-pass filter… I can high-pass pretty much any source, jack up the resonance, and get a FAT sub without any change in level and barely any change in spectral content. It's absolutely unbelievable and I'm curious what's going on w/ The Drop under the hood that other filters aren't doing...
There are around 10 major non-linearities in each 2 pole filter, each of which gently shapes the sound (or no so gently if you drive it into clip!). This means that when the audio gets loud everything bends smoothly and holds together within certain bounds, even with high resonance, this is exactly why people like using analog resonant filters - they sound great! Using a high pass filter as a bass boost is one of the best production uses of The Drop, and one that I have recently given a demo of here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10418006-post956.html :)

... And what is the drop doing that other filters aren't doing? The Drop is doing what analog filters do since it solves circuits in great detail (apart from the hiss!).
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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I would very much prefer a standard serial or license file based form of copy protection (U-he, PSP, 112db, ect) if the current form can't be used anymore. I tend to stay away from dongle and C/R whenever possible. Being able to reinstall my software without contacting anyone (auth limits, ect) is important to me and I would hate to have to stop using and sell my current licenses because of this.

I do trust your ethics Andy, but there are countless examples where customers are left out in the cold due to this type of dependent copy protection after a company closes up shop (even after they promise it won't happen).

U-he seems to have very effective serial number copy protection that is aax compatible. Have you considered contacting Urs about it?
You are currently reading my signature.

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djanthonyw wrote:I would very much prefer a standard serial or license file based form of copy protection (U-he, PSP, 112db, ect) if the current form can't be used anymore. I tend to stay away from dongle and C/R whenever possible. Being able to reinstall my software without contacting anyone (auth limits, ect) is important to me and I would hate to have to stop using and sell my current licenses because of this.

I do trust your ethics Andy, but there are countless examples where customers are left out in the cold due to this type of dependent copy protection after a company closes up shop (even after they promise it won't happen).

U-he seems to have very effective serial number copy protection that is aax compatible. Have you considered contacting Urs about it?
Not sure if you saw this part of Andy's post:
... and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.
Unless I'm mistaken, this backup would not be dependent on a running auth server, so he's future proofing the system.
Bitwig Certified Trainer

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Now I know what I'm doing, I can do really great things with DIVA & Bazille synth and The Drop best buy since I got DIVA. I don't know if it's normal to have a filter effect on top of a synth filter but I prefair using both now.
It's sculpting the oscillator waveform with more layers and huge box of tools instead of a small one.

I swopped DIVA out for Zebra and had to check I had swopped them. They sounded the same with just a basic oscillator + The Drop. Maybe it will give new life to Z3TA not used that in a while.
Thanks for The Drop Andy :clap: :party: :hihi: :hyper:
Last edited by Kaboom75 on Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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billcarroll wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:I would very much prefer a standard serial or license file based form of copy protection (U-he, PSP, 112db, ect) if the current form can't be used anymore. I tend to stay away from dongle and C/R whenever possible. Being able to reinstall my software without contacting anyone (auth limits, ect) is important to me and I would hate to have to stop using and sell my current licenses because of this.

I do trust your ethics Andy, but there are countless examples where customers are left out in the cold due to this type of dependent copy protection after a company closes up shop (even after they promise it won't happen).

U-he seems to have very effective serial number copy protection that is aax compatible. Have you considered contacting Urs about it?
Not sure if you saw this part of Andy's post:
... and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.
Unless I'm mistaken, this backup would not be dependent on a running auth server, so he's future proofing the system.
Sure, but is that auth file machine dependent, and is it something we have access to at any time or just Cytomic?
You are currently reading my signature.

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djanthonyw wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:I would very much prefer a standard serial or license file based form of copy protection (U-he, PSP, 112db, ect) if the current form can't be used anymore. I tend to stay away from dongle and C/R whenever possible. Being able to reinstall my software without contacting anyone (auth limits, ect) is important to me and I would hate to have to stop using and sell my current licenses because of this.

I do trust your ethics Andy, but there are countless examples where customers are left out in the cold due to this type of dependent copy protection after a company closes up shop (even after they promise it won't happen).

U-he seems to have very effective serial number copy protection that is aax compatible. Have you considered contacting Urs about it?
Not sure if you saw this part of Andy's post:
... and with each build I also build a command line tool executable for both mac and win that generates authorisation files as a final backup, which in the event of any problems with the cytomic web page and online activations I can distribute to all customers.
Unless I'm mistaken, this backup would not be dependent on a running auth server, so he's future proofing the system.
Sure, but is that auth file machine dependent, and is it something we have access to at any time or just Cytomic?
No idea. Sounds like this is still an idea so I suppose our input might still have some impact. Who knows?

I'm probably the odd man out since I'd prefer iLok. I'm sure iLok will never happen so let's not let that derail this thread. :)
Bitwig Certified Trainer

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If I understand correctly he means releasing a local program (if the worst happens) that can generate authorization responses, like
a keygen that requires a valid serial. This way you don't need the server.

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My main DAW is not connected to internet, it even can´t be connected because no WIFI or ethernet access in that zone. Until now I just registered The drop with my name/seriel, but what now? is there an offline activation?
Also, I tend to reformat and/or clone my main system disk to new ones in both my main Daw and auxiliary computers at least 3-4 times/year, and since the new protection is HD based how can I deal with this? 8-10 reathurizations/year??

I don´t like this new copy protection system.

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The way I see it is that there are plenty of companies that don't use C/R and they have been around since the beginning. Many of which have plugins in all formats including AAX. One of the reasons why I purchased Cytomic's two products are because of the simple copy protection. To just change it on existing customers to a solution which requires dealing with a server for authorization is something I don't agree with.

If there is a solution that many of these companies promise (when a company goes under, ect) I'd like THAT solition to be offered now, not later when the company is no more and the hopeful message of promise turns into something more along the lines of hopelessness. Bottom line is that I don't want to depend on any third parties when it comes time to be up and running with a new machine when the time comes. This means 100% offline activation.
You are currently reading my signature.

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I will just say that i strongly believe in U-HE's method which he lets any dev use for free, so i always at least urge a dev to consider it. Cheers

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