KVR Audio

Kain · Post by **Kain** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:58 pm

So what if Serum's presets suck. You don't buy this thing for presets. Stick with Nexus or whatever VST if you want presets. I did not find much presets in Massive and Sylenth1 I like either until guys like Adam Szabo started reproducing my favorite kind of trance sounds and then sold them as banks. I bought some banks but have never created anything myself in Massive or Sylenth1, just tweaking existing presets. Sounds are personal. The great thing about Serum is that if you don't like the sounds, nothing is stopping you from building your own.

With Serum sound building is completely different, somebody thought deep and hard about what they were doing. The same kind of feeling I had after I tried out Omnisphere for the first time. Simple and deep at the same time!

Omnisphere is the number one when it comes to high quality patches and presets. But for synthesis design from scratch, Serum is going to set a new standard. I can say that because I always thought you needed to read at least 3 books about synthesis untill you could exctually program your own sound. Just wait untill Serum has been around for a year and you will see some amazing soundbanks being build and sold for it. What do you expect when something as deep as serum is released? To have high quality soundbanks featuring revolutionary sounds? I will never be able so design sounds as good as the professionals. So if I want good quality sounds I will by banks and it does not matter to much for what VST they are. I mean, the designers are the artists. The VST is the framework. Serum is a massive new framework and bricks are gonna be shat and when the right guys shit their bricks they will sound superB.

sonictechtonic · Post by **sonictechtonic** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:59 pm

blacktomcat666 wrote: You can't use them directly. A Dune2 wavetable consists of up to 64 slots with 2048 samples each. Dune2 *.WT files hold the basic wavetable, followed by 23 bandlimited copies of that wavetable (for every 4th semitone of the keyboard) + a special header with information about file/data type, the number of slots used and some other parameters I haven't analysed yet.

Thanks for the quick response! I believe I've seen that people have successfully used your Audio-Term tool to create Dune 2 wavetables. I'd love to mess around with it, but I don't have a Windows machine (or emulator) right now. Soon perhaps.

Your knowledge of all things wavetable is truly impressive! Thank you for sharing your knowledge (not to mention software) here!

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:03 am

Kain wrote:So what if Serum's presets suck. You don't buy this thing for presets. ........

says who?
When I buy a guitar or piano, I am sure not going to rip out what they made it with and put my own wood/hammer/strings etc in.....
it;s what you do with the sounds to me......your way (or mine) isn't the only true way... People work differently.

rsp

swamiill · Post by **swamiill** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:09 am

Serum is my go to synth right now - I think it kicks a**. The nodes that follow in real time just make it way to easy and quick to make sounds that fit in the pocket.. AND with the adjustable curves in the matrix you can add groove to your sound with whatever you've macroed. Maybe have taken a lesson from gol with the reordering fx, which I love as well.

Aiynzahev · Post by **Aiynzahev** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:39 am

Re the presets: There's loads of buzz about this. Give it a few months and there will be loads of presets for it.

Kain · Post by **Kain** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:04 am

zvenx wrote:
Kain wrote:So what if Serum's presets suck. You don't buy this thing for presets. ........
says who?
When I buy a guitar or piano, I am sure not going to rip out what they made it with and put my own wood/hammer/strings etc in.....
it;s what you do with the sounds to me......your way (or mine) isn't the only true way... People work differently.

rsp

Let me rephrase what I said "So what if Serum's presets are not living up to whatever they are suppose to live up to. You don't buy this a week after launch just for some good presets. You buy it so YOU are the one that makes the best presets with it before everybody else does"

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:09 am

still disagree with you.
but in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter

rsp

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:15 am

fceramic wrote:
Sendy wrote:Something about the actual wavetable sweeps - either how they're executed, or the motions/waveforms chosen for the built-in wavetables doesn't grab me, though. Not sure why.

If I didn't already have this area covered, it would be a no-brainer, especially at the intro price As it is, I need more time with it.
Same here. I love everything about Serum except the oscillators. Since the wavetables are spectral/additive they will sound completely different from any wavetable synth with sample based oscillators like Massive or Wave. It's a really neat concept, but the mathematical timbres of it doesn't grab me.

Just for the record, Serum is perfectly capable of loading waves as waves (no spectral analysis) and to morph between them in the way other wavetables synths do. Of course, there is the possibility to do it the spectral way, in an off line fashion.
But I think I hear what your saying about the wavetables, they're somewhat in line with the presets in that they seem to cater to a specific genre. I'm currently building my own set, haven't bothered much with the factory provided examples.

bailees7irish · Post by **bailees7irish** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:22 am

zvenx wrote:
Kain wrote:So what if Serum's presets suck. You don't buy this thing for presets. ........
says who?
When I buy a guitar or piano, I am sure not going to rip out what they made it with and put my own wood/hammer/strings etc in.....
it;s what you do with the sounds to me......your way (or mine) isn't the only true way... People work differently.

rsp

Sorry but that's a terrible analogy. A synthesizer's presets and a piano's wood/hammers are not even close to being the same things.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:12 am

Kain wrote: With Serum sound building is completely different, somebody thought deep and hard about what they were doing. The same kind of feeling I had after I tried out Omnisphere for the first time. Simple and deep at the same time!

In which way Serum is completely different?

It still uses oscillators, a filter, envelopes and LFOs like most other wavetable synths including the original PPG Wave 2.2/2.3 synths back in the early 80s.
Maybe the GUI of Serum is slightly differnt to other synths and you could assign modulation sources from a right-click menu but basically programming it is the same.
I am quite sure that someone who is used to another wavetable synth could program sounds in the same speed as it is possible with Serum. There is no "magic" feature that will do the sound design work for you.

What really seems to be improved in Serum compared to some other wavetable synths is having a big amount of differnt filters (which indeed seem to sound nice) and a quite full featured built-in wavetable editor.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:39 am

There are some better presets eg. from John Lehmkuhl or Adam Szabo and some more average eg. by David Boldini ("7skies"). There are not so many "showroom presets", some of this stuff you cannot use in a own song because it's too much but it sounds amazing

Skyre · Post by **Skyre** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:59 am

Hey everyone, Lance Thackeray here (the GUI designer)

Couple of things. Firstly, thank you all for such positive feedback on the GUI! I'm just beginning my career in VST interface, so it's super encouraging to read this stuff. I'll eventually open a thread here with some portfolio examples, welcome any future work offers, and generally introduce myself.

I'm aware that next to nobody gives a ship about this stuff, but the WT Editor is the only page I didn't touch. I'll be skinning it up for a future update though, with Steve's go-ahead. I noticed some feedback regarding the WT Editor so I'll keep a mental note when doing so. I can already feel his eyes rolling at me bringing this up publicly. Priorities, I know...

Thanks again!

- Lance

Skyre · Post by **Skyre** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:00 am

Also, I just wanted to add a little unneeded reassurance. It was a getting a little sour a few pages back. Steve is by far the hardest, most trustworthy, and most responsive worker I know. Any lack of response here is purely down to his time spent over on the official xferrecords.com forums, and/or grinding his fingers to the bone updating his past/present products while you sleep. There's no funny business with the Cytomic logo, just a mere misunderstanding. We make mistakes...I put two "Stack" labels on the global unsion for example. Waiting a bit to see how something develops is a smart thing, I agree, I simply assure you you're investing in a top-class man. =]

re*MD9@3!Tm^ · Post by **re*MD9@3!Tm^** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:44 am

Kain wrote:So what if Serum's presets suck. You don't buy this thing for presets. Stick with Nexus or whatever VST if you want presets.

You're wrong on that I guess.

Don't underestimated the 'Wow'-effect which could easily boost sales - it's like saying "you don't buy a synth for the GUI, what matters are the pure possibilities..."

If presets (and the GUI) appeal to me I'm much more likely spend my money, but with so much good synths around I have to choose wisely what to buy next. And HQ 3rd party presets generally aren't free of charge I'm afraid (what about a Serum patch contest btw? Last U-he competitions generated a lot of fantastic Bazille stuff...)

But I must admit that Serum is really tempting, though some features of my perfect 'dream synth' are still missing (hint: Zebra with a GUI like Serum)..

goatgirl · Post by **goatgirl** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:16 am

Skyre wrote:Hey everyone, Lance Thackeray here (the GUI designer)

Hi Lance,

I'd like to congratulate you on the GUI too. I think the whole design is thought out and executed extremely well. It's one one the most intuitive interfaces that I have seen on a synth.

I guess you are going to be a busy bee with graphical work now, however If you do get a chance, while Steve is not looking, I would love to see a more orange based skin, to blend into Bitwig. Blue is nice and professional, but I like a little warmth too.

Official Serum thread!