Nobody appreciates small time electronic music makers/electronic musician for most is a lonely life

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Hink wrote:maybe why I finish few songs is because when I am done I have to label them and I find no genre called sucky ol' man noodling on P.O.S guitars and amps :hihi:
We should make up a genre for this. Is lamo taken, what about shiterock? Actually, I don't think that we need to deprecate ourselves so much, how about noodlecore?

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Hink wrote:maybe why I finish few songs is because when I am done I have to label them and I find no genre called sucky ol' man noodling on P.O.S guitars and amps :hihi:
Vini Reilly?

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ghettosynth wrote:
Hink wrote:maybe why I finish few songs is because when I am done I have to label them and I find no genre called sucky ol' man noodling on P.O.S guitars and amps :hihi:
We should make up a genre for this. Is lamo taken, what about shiterock? Actually, I don't think that we need to deprecate ourselves so much, how about noodlecore?
Hey I never called your music lame or shite :x :hihi: shiterock would be great if we were in Bedrock, but I like noodlecore :hihi:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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ntom wrote:
jancivil wrote:
ntom wrote:slapped together
I like that figure of speech, too. Got it from my father who built houses. It indicated something shoddy, though, isn't it.
My point is

/ tl;dr

Electronic music is still a snap and easier to pick up than a guitar, even if the guitarist is just pickin' out 3 chords.
Oh. Ok, even as the DAW and editing/constructing (which is the largest part of what I do tbh) doesn't through itself amount to 'Electronic Music' for me.

As to my comments to you, and you want to take this as constructive rather than spite, IME your weakest thing by far is drum parts, which you will improve by understanding from a reality base, even if you only ever totally suck at independence of limbs and making the hihat kick and snare happen 'by hand'.
But you do pose the antithesis to the OP's 'unappreciated', you're unassuming.

There is no reason people should care unless you've done something fantastic and even then you need to suck some major dick to get ahead.

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jancivil wrote:
There is no reason people should care unless you've done something fantastic and even then you need to suck some major dick to get ahead.

Oh yeah, I know this. We could probably sit here all day and debate the different strategies on how or why people get "successful"
--I mean, a key part to that debate would just be deciding what defines "success" in this scenario.
But I would say roughly it comes down the Life's RNG and sucking some fat, slimy, veiny cock before you can even get a small merit of what might be considered "success".

On the other hand, success is different than being appreciated. You could be a small time electronic music maker with 200 or less "fans" but be well appreciated by them for the work you do. Just because people appreciate the work you do, doesn't necessarily mean you are successful in the sense that you get wide spread acclaim.
As I was saying, I find it hard to respect certain electronic producers due to the nature of how simple it is to pick up an construct a song. If I can't even respect that music, it would be hard for me to appreciate it.

**side note; don't take my state as in: I have ZERO respect for all electronic musicians; that would be rather hypocritical of me. I am simply saying it is more difficult for me to find respect for certain artists and their music if it is purely electronicly based.

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jancivil wrote: There is no reason people should care unless you've done something fantastic and even then you need to suck some major dick to get ahead.
Well, I think that something that's often missing from these threads is what does the OP mean by "appreciate?" My aforementioned friend's idea of "appreciate" is that he continues to get booked at small non-paying gigs and that labels, that sell records to a very very tiny niche market, have taken notice of his work. I'm pretty sure that he hasn't had to suck any dick, metaphorically or otherwise, to get that "appreciation", he simply does what he does for audiences that care. He doesn't give a crap about being famous for music or making money at it, for him, music is just a pastime.

OP has something like 41 followers, that's not really anything, and, on a brief listen to some of his tracks, it's not clear to me who would care? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't know who wants to listen to E-pseudoD-M. I hear a lot of that sort of thing on soundcloud and very little of it on streaming services.

Others have pointed out that anyone can start a soundcloud page and put some music online. You have to do more than that, I think, to get a basic level of appreciation, i.e., a following.

Beyond that, yes, there's probably an element of luck and non-musical people skills that get you someplace further.

So, if you want to ask the question, you'll probably get better answers if you define what you mean by "appreciate."

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ghettosynth wrote:

Well, I think that something that's often missing from these threads is what does the OP mean by "appreciate?" My aforementioned friend's idea of "appreciate" is that he continues to get booked at small non-paying gigs and that labels, that sell records to a very very tiny niche market, have taken notice of his work. I'm pretty sure that he hasn't had to suck any dick, metaphorically or otherwise, to get that "appreciation", he simply does what he does for audiences that care. He doesn't give a crap about being famous for music or making money at it, for him, music is just a pastime.

OP has something like 41 followers, that's not really anything, and, on a brief listen to some of his tracks, it's not clear to me who would care? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't know who wants to listen to E-pseudoD-M. I hear a lot of that sort of thing on soundcloud and very little of it on streaming services.

Others have pointed out that anyone can start a soundcloud page and put some music online. You have to do more than that, I think, to get a basic level of appreciation, i.e., a following.

Beyond that, yes, there's probably an element of luck and non-musical people skills that get you someplace further.

So, if you want to ask the question, you'll probably get better answers if you define what you mean by "appreciate."
well let me add a bit to what I think you are saying, it just happens that I have 39 followers on soundcloud and I have been a member for years. While I dont always care for the saying, I think it's fair to say I have paid my share of my dues in music having played so long. So what is missing? Promotion. I post a song every few years in the cafe, I post a song every now and then on FB, I might put a new song in my sig here and yeah I have the links here but of course most people do not bother with either and tbh I am one of those people. In fact in March I posted a song in the cafe but I felt fairly strongly that I should not because I dont go to the cafe often to listen to others music and it seemed hypocritical to me but I was talked into it by robojam.

If you want to be recognized you do have to put in the leg work, just writing the music and posting it does little in a world that's flooded with other artists doing the same thing. One cannot expect listeners to come to them and I prove this quite well imo, you want followers you gotta spend the time...for me followers dont mean a thing but if you want the followers and appreciation you gotta go get them.

I was having a similar conversation earlier today with an exdrummer of mine turned singer (he really should have stayed a drummer). He was upset because he cannot find a lead guitarist who wants to play only originals and those who can write their own guitar tracks. I guess his band has gone through a lot of guitar players because they all want to play covers and he doesn't get it. I told him the problem is these guitarists want to play and they want to play out, people who go out to see bands in his area (60 miles west of Boston in central Mass) want to hear songs they know. They would rather know the songs and not know the band than to not know the band or any of the songs and the club owners know this.

When I kicked coke 21 years ago I was frustrated that I could not find a relationship, I had a great therapist at the time and she said something that has stuck with me (and fwiw worked). "Sometimes you need a fish to catch a fish".

In the case of my friend, he needed some songs people know to catch the attention of future bandmates, club owners and fans. Catch their attention with some covers and throw in some originals to start getting his music known. In the case of the OP he needs followers to get followers, if he wants appreciation he simply needs to put as much work into promoting his music as he does writing it and hope it takes. Nothing worth while in life comes easy, if he only has 41 followers and he wants appreciation he needs to hit the bricks imho. It's a tough business if you want to go into it, me I would rather my music be my lifestyle and not my career, too much like work :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hink wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
OP has something like 41 followers, that's not really anything, and, on a brief listen to some of his tracks, it's not clear to me who would care?
well let me add a bit to what I think you are saying, it just happens that I have 39 followers on soundcloud and I have been a member for years. While I dont always care for the saying, I think it's fair to say I have paid my share of my dues in music having played so long. So what is missing? Promotion. I post a song every few years in the cafe, I post a song every now and then on FB, I might put a new song in my sig here and yeah I have the links here but of course most people do not bother with either and tbh I am one of those people. In fact in March I posted a song in the cafe but I felt fairly strongly that I should not because I dont go to the cafe often to listen to others music and it seemed hypocritical to me but I was talked into it by robojam.
Exactly, I'm not really saying "oh look, you only have 41 followers, your music must suck", rather, I'm saying, "you only have 41 followers, if you can't get more than that, you aren't even at the starting point for getting attention for your music."
If you want to be recognized you do have to put in the leg work, just writing the music and posting it does little in a world that's flooded with other artists doing the same thing. One cannot expect listeners to come to them and I prove this quite well imo, you want followers you gotta spend the time...for me followers dont mean a thing but if you want the followers and appreciation you gotta go get them.
Exactly.
if he only has 41 followers and he wants appreciation he needs to hit the bricks imho. It's a tough business if you want to go into it, me I would rather my music be my lifestyle and not my career, too much like work :shrug:
Yeah man, that's it.

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In a universe where there are a near infinite number of people, making almost identical music, using almost identical software, on almost identical computers, it comes as no surprise that almost nobody listens to any of it. That’s the democratisation of music production.

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In a world of complete media oversaturation we're going back to the appreciation of old fashion handcrafted music. Average people need to "SEE" how it's done. Solution: We need MUCH BIGGER KNOBS!!!! ;)

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dalor wrote:In a world of complete media oversaturation we're going back to the appreciation of old fashion handcrafted music. Average people need to "SEE" how it's done. Solution: We need MUCH BIGGER KNOBS!!!! ;)
By far and away the biggest knobs you'll ever find are all on KvR.

Play live. If you want to be a gladiator you have to survive the arena.

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To be honest, as a curmudgeonly guitar playing dinosaur myself, I get a little bit tired of the oversimplification of the Electronic vs "real" music debate. I mean, I sing, play guitar, and keys, and can even bash some standard beats on a drum kit if I really needed to. I have done this for varying small amounts of money in the past. I have a hard time though, trying to make the point that Electronic music is "easy" I don't think it is, to do it well. and to be brutally honest there is nothing really that hard about playing rock/metal/blues music on a guitar, provided you have put a little time and calluses into it.

I mean, if I'm in my studio, and I need to lay down some parts, I'm going to play them in, whether MIDI or guitar, and maybe fix a few things after I'm done. That's WAY easier for me than sitting there and entering in notes, automation curves, and step sequences with my mouse. actually that's a bit too much like work, in my opinion. So my hat is off to anybody that can sequence in an entire track without picking up an instrument.

where I think a lot of electronic music falls flat is in the arrangements and the emotional content of the music. Music needs to move, it needs to be familiar and unpredictable at the same time, it needs to connect with people on a human level. A lot of EDM and Downtempo stuff doesn't try to do that. As someone made the point earlier in the thread, the music is supposed to be utilitarian, it's supposed to make you dance, or it's supposed to chill you out, but it's not really supposed to make you think, or to try to make a human to human connection.

The tools we use make it harder, you can auto tune everything to death, you can compress and limit the shit out of everything, and you can quantize it to total musical perfection, and you can produce the entire thing in your underwear without having to work with any other musicians. But it loses something in that transition.

I don't have the answer, but I have been more appreciative of electronic music over the last few years as I've gotten involved with all this stuff, I just would love for someone to take these tools, and make brilliant music that reaches the soul of humanity the way that Dylan, and the Beatles, and others have. You do that, and you will find the appreciation.

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ShawnG wrote: I don't have the answer, but I have been more appreciative of electronic music over the last few years as I've gotten involved with all this stuff, I just would love for someone to take these tools, and make brilliant music that reaches the soul of humanity the way that Dylan, and the Beatles, and others have. You do that, and you will find the appreciation.
Well isn't this a bit subjective?
To be fair, I often feel my music is a little bit more on the deeper end of things than some of the trite electronic shit that is put out. Actually, let me be less conceited and just simply say that there are a lot of artists on this forum that have put out stuff that I felt I could connect with; and trust me, I'm a picky son-of-a-bitch when it comes to the music I like.

It comes down to: What are you looking for to connect with you in your music?
I'm one of those blasted young'em who just can't seem to turn their damn music down, and while I'm not a fan of more modern genres in the electronic field (especially modern EDM genres) - which may be a result of KVR rubbing off on me over the many years I have attended it - I still find certain connections with things that may not exactly resonate with you.

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whether I personally at the end of the day like it or not is subjective (I am not really a huge Dylan fan either) What I am saying is stop removing personality and emotion from music. make me feel your rage, or your sadness, or your joy. put your soul into it to the point where there's a risk of personal rejection. The issue with a lot of electronic music is that it's just a collection of well-engineered notes with no underlying meaning. Have something to say. and use your sequencer the way Dylan used his guitar and his lyrics.

Keep in mind, I do recognize that there are electronic artists out there doing this, but I would love it if there where more. Music is too important a thing to have it relegated to the level of audible furniture.

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ghettosynth wrote:
jancivil wrote: There is no reason people should care unless you've done something fantastic and even then you need to suck some major dick to get ahead.
Well, I think that something that's often missing from these threads is what does the OP mean by "appreciate?" My aforementioned friend's idea / doesn't give a crap about being famous for music or making money at it.
I just find someone whinging here about 'appreciation' misplaced and given what context I can gather a bit cart-before-the-horse. "to get ahead" refers to a career and the attendant notoriety and isn't focused on any one person's idea of things, just a riff following the other thing I said.

If you make something which is geared toward a low common denominator and it isn't paying off in terms of the approbation of your peers, I see how that would suck but there is a lot of competition, so if you want people to care, stand out, 'do something fantastic'.

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