Bladerunner would be forgettable without the soundtrack.

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ghettosynth wrote:
lnikj wrote:American Beauty, Thief or any John Carpenter film
So right, got that playing now. Compared to Bladerunner, that's a movie that I liked a lot. Now I want to watch it to see how much the soundtrack impacts my enjoyment of the movie.
Try the original "Red Dawn". Terrible movie, but Basil Pouledoris' mainly electronic score makes it uber-watchable.

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Who cares what you think about the film?

..from an interview with Vangelis:

Q: From where did you take your principal thematic and textural cues when approaching the soundtrack of Blade Runner?

A: Everything came purely from the film itself -- the characters, the settings, the atmosphere, the story, the whole thing.

Q: You have doubtless been approached to score other science-fiction films since Blade Runner - is it something you feel you have 'done', or would the right story tempt you back into the genre?

A: If it were something as good as Blade Runner I would definitely not reject it.

It's naive to split the music from the film like you did. It shows that you don't understand it as a whole.
Last edited by valerian_777 on Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ghettosynth wrote:
Robmobius wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
Robmobius wrote: But as you say, you don't care what other people think. So why put it up on a forum...?
To have a discussion. I'm sharing my opinion as you are sharing yours. Don't waste your energy trying to convince me that I'm wrong, just say what you like about the movie. All you've said so far is that you like it because other people think that it's a great movie.
I think you ant-logic reality filter is about to kick in. :tu:
When you display logic and I reject it, you might have a point, all you've presented so far is fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
I think you should be checking that link a touch more then me... :tu:

You can try to spin it, so I only think it's 'cool' because of popular opinion, which is not what I said at all (see straw man logical fallacy). My opinions are my own.
I said that you offered nothing but that.
I merely said that you are going against the grain so to speak.
Which implies that the majority know what a good film is, i.e., ad-populum.
Tut tut now... I thoroughly debunked that 'ad-populum' in my last post. :lol: So no need to quote myself.

Nice try with the non sequitur as well by the way. 'Fingers in the ears', eh? Ah-La-la-la... Ah-La-la-la... :tu:

Well, I've danced long enough... No point in going around in circles. :party:

Enjoy life in Trumpton!
I will take the Lord's name in vain, whenever I want. Hail Satan! And his little goblins too. :lol:

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valerian_777 wrote:Who cares what you think about the film?

..from an interview with Vangelis:

Q: From where did you take your principal thematic and textural cues when approaching the soundtrack of Blade Runner?

A: Everything came purely from the film itself -- the characters, the settings, the atmosphere, the story, the whole thing.

Q: You have doubtless been approached to score other science-fiction films since Blade Runner - is it something you feel you have 'done', or would the right story tempt you back into the genre?

A: If it were something as good as Blade Runner I would definitely not reject it.

It's naive to split the music from the film like you did. It shows that you don't understand it as a whole.
Back of the net! :tu:
I will take the Lord's name in vain, whenever I want. Hail Satan! And his little goblins too. :lol:

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ghettosynth wrote:Which implies that the majority know what a good film is, i.e., ad-populum.
when it comes to the creative arts, judgments of 'good, and 'bad', should be outlawed

flaws do not exist for self-appointed, self-important armchair critics (not referring to you) to feel superior in exposing them. flaws exist because nothing is 'perfect'. perfection doesn't exist when dealing with the subjective. i think a lot of it comes down to how much each person can suspend disbelief (the clue is in the word 'fiction'). some people really will write off an entire film on the basis of a couple of flaws, or some inconsistencies.

yes, the film can be slow in places (but i often find it depends on my mood going in). yes, harisson ford is not the greatest of actors (but he IS this role, and i couldn't imagine anyone else doing it). yeah, the future-predicted tech didn't quite end up like that...like i said, it is more than the sum of it's parts....FOR ME. maybe i just don't know what a good film is. actually, no "maybe" about it - i mean, i prefer the voice-over...clearly i am an idiot :ud:

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ghettosynth wrote:Why are you posting here if you aren't interested in my discussion.
:clown:

I saw the picture fairly recently. I don't spend time with a movie if I'm going to check it for flaws. If it isn't working for me, I bail.
It totally worked for me just as it did in the first place. Probably more so. I think the story is moving.

I hate critics though. "I don't like it" writ into a big argument is usually twaddle.

What movie would totally be as convincing WITH NO MUSIC (or with music that didn't work as well as it did)? It's an absurd premise and I'll reinforce the person that said splitting the two things apart is clueless.
Last edited by jancivil on Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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valerian_777 wrote: It's naive to split the music from the film like you did. It shows that you don't understand it as a whole.
It shows no such thing, but, if you need to believe that, knock yourself out, it's no skin off of my teeth.

Whether Vangelis was moved by the movie has no bearing on my point of view. I can certainly separate them hypothetically and criticize each individually. Moreover, I can assert that I feel that one is making up for the limits of the other, as other people have acknowledged as well. As I've inferred, my appreciation for the soundtrack, has a lot more to do with the production than it does with the music, per se. I doubt that I would have appreciated it so much if it were produced with, say, instruments from the 90s.

This is KVR, and this is in the music forum. If you can't appreciate my perspective, then perhaps the issue isn't so much with my "naivety" so much as it is with your own.

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: yes, the film can be slow in places
Well, then we agree.

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ghettosynth wrote:
valerian_777 wrote: It's naive to split the music from the film like you did. It shows that you don't understand it as a whole.
Whether Vangelis was moved by the movie has no bearing on my point of view. I can certainly separate them hypothetically and criticize each individually. Moreover, I can assert that I feel that one is making up for the limits of the other, as other people have acknowledged as well.
Now you like ad populum, what?

What you have doesn't separate them for me; if someone agrees with you, good for both of you. You're going to get exercized by people that don't take your opinion as weightier than theirs? Chill out maybe.
Last edited by jancivil on Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SODDI wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
lnikj wrote:American Beauty, Thief or any John Carpenter film
So right, got that playing now. Compared to Bladerunner, that's a movie that I liked a lot. Now I want to watch it to see how much the soundtrack impacts my enjoyment of the movie.
Try the original "Red Dawn". Terrible movie, but Basil Pouledoris' mainly electronic score makes it uber-watchable.

Interesting. I haven't seen that movie in years, largely because I didn't find it particularly compelling. That said, the last time that I saw it, if indeed I've seen it more than once, I'm sure that it was via crappy VHS stereo sound with a mediocre sound system. I'll have to give it a go some afternoon.

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aMUSEd wrote:
bailees7irish wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:It's an awesome film (for me one of the very best scifi films ever made) but what is interesting is Harrison Ford also starred in another film about the same time that although subject-wise was completely different has a lot of structural similarities and also has a great synth soundtrack that takes it to another level - Witness.
I think Harrison Ford is a major part of the problem with Blade Runner. He's just not a good actor by any stretch of the imagination. A better lead actor could have lifted the movie considerably. Rutger Hauer, however, was f***ing badass as always.
Nah he's fine for the film it was. And Witness.
I'm sure that I've seen Witness, but I don't recall any detail. I'll have to check it out again and see whether I agree with bailees or you.

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I doubt I'd admire the music on its own, I'm not a fan of Vangelis really.
You have enthusiasms I don't, 80's synth brass has teh 'brass power' in Vangelis' hands real brass in the hands of Jerry Goldsmith lacks? Yeah, everybody's a critic.

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: edward scissorhands - danny elfman
I found that movie completely unwatchable. I'm not really a Danny Elfman fan though. It's in the same discard bin as Ghostbusters , 200 Motels, and Tetsuo, the Iron Man for me. It sets my "I'm annoyed" flag so quickly that it doesn't matter how good the movie is, I just can't sit through it. I'd rather do my taxes.

YMMV.

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jancivil wrote:What movie would totally be as convincing WITH NO MUSIC (or with music that didn't work as well as it did)? It's an absurd premise and I'll reinforce the person that said splitting the two things apart is clueless.
I'm afraid OP still don't get it but as said i don't care and therefore i'm off.. ..time is to precious for complete nonsense like this. :)
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jancivil wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
valerian_777 wrote: It's naive to split the music from the film like you did. It shows that you don't understand it as a whole.
Whether Vangelis was moved by the movie has no bearing on my point of view. I can certainly separate them hypothetically and criticize each individually. Moreover, I can assert that I feel that one is making up for the limits of the other, as other people have acknowledged as well.
Now you like ad populum, what?

What you have doesn't separate them for me; if someone agrees with you, good for both of you. You're going to get exercized by people that don't take your opinion as weightier than theirs? Chill out maybe.
Not at all, the assertion is that I cannot separate them. That is an absolute statement. I can, but clearly parent doesn't believe my separation so I only need one other example, I have several. Now to assert that one "cannot", he must not only reject my position, he must reject the others as well.

This is not the same as arguing that X is good because the population believes so. If you are unaware, it is perfectly valid to show doesNotExist(X) is false by showing the existence of a single X. You cannot argue that all functions are integrable because many are but you can absolutely argue that "no functions are integrable" is false by showing one that is. Similarly, a probabilistic argument in the negative can be shown less valid by showing several counterexamples.

But let's be clear, I'm not the one making absolutist statements about anything, other than my own opinion. I don't think that Bladerunner is a very good movie, that's my opinion and I don't have to defend it to any particular degree. If you think that it's good, then good for you, you won't convince me by arguing that others do. My film class prof was able to "convince me", years ago, that films that I would have dismissed at the time were good, e.g., most of Chaplin's work. He did not resort to any of the weak arguments demonstrated in this thread, which, really, are nothing more than poor attempts to discredit my opinion. He was not able to convince me, however, that any movie was enjoyable and was well aware of the distinction.

Sendy convinced me that I understated the value of the cinematography, but to be clear, that is just a lapse in my description, not something that I wasn't aware of. Clearly, as I think that, as interesting as it is, the darkness is tiresome.

Moreover, I can certainly agree that some movies are good, but that I don't like them, I think that "No Country for Old Men" falls into this category for me. It certainly made me feel, but not in a pleasant way, and I tend to like really dark movies. I don't think that it's much different from some music that I've experienced which I detest at the same time that I marvel at the ability.

But I'm not there with Bladerunner. I think that it's a mediocre movie overall and wouldn't have been groundbreaking without the soundtrack.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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