Digidesign's Structure Vs. Kontakt

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AlesisVi61 wrote:What are you talking about?I never had Pro Tools.Not that it's important now,as I no longer have that PC anyhow...but I did have Propellerhead and Presonus S1 successfully installed on my former PC.
Did you have problems with other VSTs or was it only the Komplete package that didn't show up in Studio 1 ?

Not all version of Studio 1 accepts VSTs, that is another problem.

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Numanoid wrote:
AlesisVi61 wrote: Did you have problems with other VSTs or was it only the Komplete package that didn't show up in Studio 1 ?

Not all version of Studio 1 accepts VSTs, that is another problem.
Apart from a few oddball freeware VST's,I have never had any problems with VST's in Studio One.

Thanks for your interest,but I am no longer interested in discussing my past issues with Native Instruments...so can we please drop this particular topic?...because this was an old issue that was dead & buried long ago and I've moved on since then.

Just to clarify,I only brought up Native Instruments as a means of comparing sample engines(rather than to try and resurrect & iron out issues that no longer concern me.

Thanks.

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I guess Structure (which I do have) is fine if you just need the included sounds but Kontakt's value in addition to the included sounds, is the vast number of third party (and NI) instruments. Neither Structure or anything else is equal to Kontakt in most areas.

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C-note wrote:I guess Structure (which I do have) is fine if you just need the included sounds but Kontakt's value in addition to the included sounds, is the vast number of third party (and NI) instruments. Neither Structure or anything else is equal to Kontakt in most areas.
I am well aware of the enormous amount of sound libraries available in Kontakt(which is why I had a difficult time divorcing myself from Kontakt completely)...but all of the negatives I've experienced with lack of tech support,installation issues,CPU usage and all of the defects & instability issues I had with their overpriced BASiS VST...well...that was too much hardship to endure.

I was just looking to fulfill my brass & string ensemble needs that I couldn't get from Reason and Structure seems to fit that bill nicely.
Apart from that though...the expansion bundle is so mind-blowingly impressive and reasonably priced,that I would be either congenitally insane,or irretrievably stupid...not to take advantage of it.

Another compelling factor,is the simplicity of the GUI and the low CPU usage.These are the very reasons why I have Reason and Studio One(although...AIR's overall layout is much simpler than Reason ever was,or ever will be).

As for some of the more obscure,hard to get sample libraries..well...Propellerhead has some very interesting third party developments going on...such as Celtic,ethnic and other Refills and Rack Ext's that veer off the beaten path.

So...in conclusion,I think I will have all of my bases covered and I am confident that AIR's expansion pack will keep me awash in a sea of music writing inspiration for many years to come!

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If you've already made up your mind that "structure good, NI bad," whats the point? Go buy structure and be happy. It is the greatest and the best and as good as Kontakt in some ways.

Did I make up your mind?
W11 i9-13900K, 64GB Cubase, UAD/Motu Monitor 8 front end and more plugins then I ever actually need :D

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musicdoc wrote:If you've already made up your mind that "structure good, NI bad," whats the point? Go buy structure and be happy. It is the greatest and the best and as good as Kontakt in some ways.

Did I make up your mind?
Honestly...I don't know why some people need to be spoon-fed and have everything spelled out for them...especially after I have already illustrated my plights,opinions view..etc.,.& then have to continue to elaborate and explain myself further..as if it is some sort of unfathomable mystery.

To put a finer point on it and delineate my feelings in such a manner as to clarify with pristine precision...so you are on my wavelength....
...For years,I have been very conflicted about dismissing Native Instrument's Kontakt,because it was a tremendous & economical source for inspiration and realism for my projects and in addition to this,there simply is no sampler player that has such an immense and diverse sound library,from indigenous and 3rd party sources.
As I have outlined....the negatives have outweighed the positives of NI and believe me,it took an awful lot
of discord for NI to alienate me.
Ever since I had moved on from NI to find it's equivalent,one of the things I had done,was to devote all of my time,energy and coin,in an effort to squeeze out what I could from my Reason DAW.
Unfortunately though,Propellerhead's sample engines have not been upgraded,since the DAW's inception and although Reason's Rack Ext.'s..along with Big Fish Audio's content,did fill some of the voids,the absence of a authentic sounding brass and string ensemble programs still remained.

As I trudged on further into my quest,I had considered many other DAW's with included and integrated sounds and even some expensive hardware workstations(with the idea that I could find what I needed,without the arduous headaches in dealing with registration and installation issues)...but it was all too exorbitantly expensive.

However...once Pro Tool's sound libraries became VST's as well,then this was one major hurdle that was out of my way..but still...there was the matter of finding a reasonable alternative,to what was missing in my Propellerhead program....the realism of the bread & butter sounds I needed.

Though it seemed apparent that Structure was a good upgrade,but not quite up to par with Kontakt(which is my suspicion)...these calculated speculations were a bit convoluted by the fact that originally,Structure..in of itself,had a price tag of $500 and since Pro Tools is so wildly notorious as being the "gold" standard in the industry,it made me wonder that perhaps...Structure may be as authentic sounding as Kontakt,but unlike Kontakt...Structure had a limited sound library?

The very core idea behind this thread,was and is,that no matter what marginal or significant differences there are between Structure & Kontakt,I was going to indeed buy Structure,as part of the expansion bundle(even though Structure may not be the all-in-one solution)..because all of the other content in the bundle,is so magnificent.

All this being said,I thought perhaps...that some input from other Structure users,might confirm my assumptions about Structure as being an upgrade from what I currently have in my arsenal...AND...the reason why I have not purchased the expansion bundle yet,is that in order for me to PURCHASE it,I had to first apply for a new credit card and I am currently waiting for that card to arrive.

I also do not have my new midi controller keyboard as of yet,so this thread also helps me pass the time,while I wait for my hardware and credit card to arrive.

Generally...I do an immense amount of research,before I buy anything and sometimes it's helpful..while other times it not so much and even overkill at times...but all necessary to some degree,for various reasons.

Do I make myself clear enough now...can you make some sense out of it all,at this point?

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AlesisVi61 wrote:Though it seemed apparent that Structure was a good upgrade,but not quite up to par with Kontakt(which is my suspicion)...these calculated speculations were a bit convoluted by the fact that originally,Structure..in of itself,had a price tag of $500 and since Pro Tools is so wildly notorious as being the "gold" standard in the industry,it made me wonder that perhaps...Structure may be as authentic sounding as Kontakt,but unlike Kontakt...Structure had a limited sound library?

The very core idea behind this thread,was and is,that no matter what marginal or significant differences there are between Structure & Kontakt,I was going to indeed buy Structure,as part of the expansion bundle(even though Structure may not be the all-in-one solution)..because all of the other content in the bundle,is so magnificent.
OK, let me add something to this. I have been quiet, since I don't like these "gear wars", but I had the opportunity to try Structure when it was launched (I still have it, although I basically don't use it because I pretty much gave up of Pro Tools after version PT8 8), and had some conversations with Peter Gorges himself about it, and here is what I can tell:

1. It's true that Structure library is somehow limited (by the time it was launched, they had a special offer to bundle it with East West Goliath Structure-Edition - https://www.avid.com/US/products/Goliat ... re-Edition, and with Goliath it was a hell of tool). East West was also commited to port their orchestral libraries to Structure platform, but I don't know if they actually did. Anyway, right now, it seems there is no longer a Structure Edition of Goliath, only the Play edition.

2. Besides this, Structure was able to directly read Kontakt (version 4?) instruments and EXS24 instruments (it has it's own optimized converters built-in) and the conversions were top notch, therefore, one could greatly expand Structure library almost imediately. There features will probably still be there, which means that you may be able to use your Kontakt library directly in Structure, with the exception of the scritping (EDIT: Yeap, confirmed: "Use your SampleCell, Kontakt, and EXS24 sound libraries* (supports up to 8-channel interleaved samples")

3. In what concerns quality of the results, Structure was, at least, on pair with Kontakt 4, at that time, which I think is saying a lot. Regarding density of theinstruments, the only thing lacking in Structure was scripting - pretty much everything else Kontakt was able to do Structure was also able to do.

Now, as several had referred, Kontakt 5 made huge improvements in several areas. Besides, Mach Five 3 also was a huge jump in terms of quality and versatility of the sampler/sound engine. The same can be said of HALion 5. Structure is strictly a sampler, without any of the extras added to the current versions of the samplers, especially Mach Five 3 and HALion 5. But, considering the price of the bundle and the other instruments you get, it is a great value for money, and judging strictly for the sampling abilities, Structure will almost for certain make a good job
Last edited by fmr on Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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Fernando,

Thanks a mint for the very helpful info,as this is great news!Back when I had my NI K6 running,I was very content with the quality of Kontakt 4...so,for my needs,something at the level of Kontakt 5,is not necessary.

I primarily work with electric basses,acoustic drums...some e.guitar...but mostly synths,so the expansion bundle will be perfect for what I do in the studio and AIR's instruments will save me a tremendous amount of money,which is paramount at the moment.

As much as I need realistic sounding brass & string ensembles in my arsenal,I really don't use them that often....so whatever Structure has to offer,will more than likely be sufficient....for the times I do need to utilize such sounds.

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Hi,

Im a Structure user, so maybe I can help you.
I bought it when I was searching an alternative to switch from my Mpc. Like I used Protools to mix my sounds, I though it could be a good idea to use it to produce itb too. And certainly less expansive than buy NI Komplete or an other DAW.
So, I was looking for a Protools "soft" sampler and I found Kontakt and Structure.
I'll tried them and I choose to go with Structure. To be honest, I used my own samples in both, and I prefered Struture for the sound quality and simplicity.
Maybe it's because I can use the "free version" in Protools 10 too. I can export my slice directly from the PT timeline to Structure free with a simple Drag 'n Drop(I don't know if you can do that with the vst version), and I use the full version to edit and play with my slices.

You should notice the lack of timestrecht functions which can be a workflow killer for some guys. Generally, I do it in PT or in Transfuser (available in the AEIP) so no problem for me :D
You could use Transfuser like a sampler/slicer too, it has a lot of loops that you can rearrange/slice, etc...So, I think your need for brass and strings sounds will be easily covered.
In fact, when you know exactly what you want to do, I think the AIEP is the perfect bundle to produce. And it has no competitor in its price range. But, you must keep in mind that AIR was part from Avid one day and their products are in the same philosophy, in my opinion.
But Im a PT user, so my opinion is certainly influenced by the fact that I use a lot of their products which are native in PT.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace.
Last edited by eponim on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AlesisVi61 wrote:Generally...I do an immense amount of research,before I buy anything and sometimes it's helpful..while other times it not so much and even overkill at times...but all necessary to some degree,for various reasons.
An option can be to visit your local music dealer.

There you can usually demo most stuff, a hands on experience is the best tour

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Thanks Eponim. 8)

Numanoid,

There are no local music stores where I'm at & I don't drive.Considering how old Structure is,I doubt any music store would have it up & running on their computers anyhow.

Also...my decision to purchase the expansion bundle is not entirely hinged on Structure,as there is so much more to the package that I'm interested in.
The thing of it is....if I had the means to buy the download at this moment,I would have done so already...but thanks anyway.

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