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It is for the way that I work. Not even close
Windows 10 PC. Reason. Cubase. Waveform. Reaper. Studio One Pro. Epiphone Les Paul Pro II. Nektar Panorama t4. Yamaha RBX Bass. Faderport 2. Eris E5 Monitors. SSL2 Interface. Audient Evo 4. AKG C214. Aston Origin. MXL 990.

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softska wrote:It is different alright, not sure I agree if it is really faster besides drag&drop samples.
Really? The R7 browser takes more than 20 seconds to open for me. There are few things more annoying than a modal browser locking up the whole program for half a minute with an hourglass.

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Tronam wrote:
softska wrote:It is different alright, not sure I agree if it is really faster besides drag&drop samples.
Really? The R7 browser takes more than 20 seconds to open for me. There are few things more annoying than a modal browser locking up the whole program for half a minute with an hourglass.
Sucks to hear that, but for my system anyway, never once did the browser in R7 locked up on me and it open instant. Indexing does make refills open faster but I don't have too many of them.

I guess I shouldn't comment on much w NDA and all, but R6 browser has all typical OSX browser behavior as far as keyboard navigation goes, that mattered to me.
jjpscott01 wrote:It is for the way that I work. Not even close
Care to share? Genuinely curious.

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After the 30th Id love to. But to be fair, I can say i own quite a large amount of refills so obviously the new workflow enhancments would benefit me more than some. Ill also mention that a few of the smaller changes are the ones that have made such a difference for me as far as speed goes. Doesnt mean everyone will feel the same way of course, but ive had a blast with the beta so far
Windows 10 PC. Reason. Cubase. Waveform. Reaper. Studio One Pro. Epiphone Les Paul Pro II. Nektar Panorama t4. Yamaha RBX Bass. Faderport 2. Eris E5 Monitors. SSL2 Interface. Audient Evo 4. AKG C214. Aston Origin. MXL 990.

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I always thought of Reason as a 'Virtual Rack' in essence. So it seems to me that not including any new rack devices in an update is kind of weird and purpose-defeating. I would expect two or three new devices really. And that wouldn't include 'replacement' devices for effects that were in Reason which are now going to be taken away (why can't they just leave those Line 6 devices 'as is' and just not update them further?)

Ahh, anyway...I'm a long-time reason user for many good reasons .
So now I'm conflicted and I'm thinking of re-trying the alternatives again. But there are many factors in making that decision, making music is a very personal thing.

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timfarman wrote:I always thought of Reason as a 'Virtual Rack' in essence. So it seems to me that not including any new rack devices in an update is kind of weird and purpose-defeating. I would expect two or three new devices really. And that wouldn't include 'replacement' devices for effects that were in Reason which are now going to be taken away (why can't they just leave those Line 6 devices 'as is' and just not update them further?)

Ahh, anyway...I'm a long-time reason user for many good reasons .
So now I'm conflicted and I'm thinking of re-trying the alternatives again. But there are many factors in making that decision, making music is a very personal thing.
I'm assuming their license with Line6 has expired and there are legal complications on renewing it straight away?

I agree with your other remark. I don't believe in the DAW. I believe in the virtual rack. I believe in virtual instruments being made as live composer friendly as possible and a simple MIDI sequencer being an addition for automating virtual instruments only where playing too many of them live isn't possible.

Reason used to have this vision but somehow in the last few years, Propellerhead have changed this concept to make Reason into more of a technician's tool than a musician/engineer's tool.

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Tren wrote:
timfarman wrote:I always thought of Reason as a 'Virtual Rack' in essence. So it seems to me that not including any new rack devices in an update is kind of weird and purpose-defeating. I would expect two or three new devices really. And that wouldn't include 'replacement' devices for effects that were in Reason which are now going to be taken away (why can't they just leave those Line 6 devices 'as is' and just not update them further?)

Ahh, anyway...I'm a long-time reason user for many good reasons .
So now I'm conflicted and I'm thinking of re-trying the alternatives again. But there are many factors in making that decision, making music is a very personal thing.
I'm assuming their license with Line6 has expired and there are legal complications on renewing it straight away?

I agree with your other remark. I don't believe in the DAW. I believe in the virtual rack. I believe in virtual instruments being made as live composer friendly as possible and a simple MIDI sequencer being an addition for automating virtual instruments only where playing too many of them live isn't possible.

Reason used to have this vision but somehow in the last few years, Propellerhead have changed this concept to make Reason into more of a technician's tool than a musician/engineer's tool.
Actually, the reason for Reason to have ReWire is exactly that - the vision of it as a virtual rack of gear, that can be used, via ReWire, with sequencers (or DAWs, if you prefer).
Fernando (FMR)

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I also see it as a Virtual Rack too, and this is (for me) the sole reason no VST/AU support is a not a big issue.

as a DAW, I think Reason doesn't really compare well to other DAWs.
I do understand why some might use it as a DAW, if it does all that is required, its quite simple to use and combined with the racks is a good 'all in one box'…
but its seems an odd ambition for Reason where (arguably) its strengths are the instruments, and PH have developed rewire to allow connection to a DAW. (if they ever abandon rewire, to try to push us to using Reason as a DAW, I will sell immediately!)

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From a KvR point of view I understand the bewilderment over the direction Propellerhead has been taking Reason, especially since version 6, because I'd imagine most are Rewiring it with other software. There are plenty of other users though who love working in the program and have long wanted it to grow beyond its virtual rack to become a legitimate DAW in its own right. This demand is probably what led to the development of their Record product in the first place, as a way to appease both types of users and keep both products focused. That's pretty ambitious for a small company, maintaining two "flagship" products like this and I bet it dragged down development considerably. That period was the slowest ever release cycle for Reason, three years between v4 and v5 for two devices, one new and one an update. I bet the Props discovered very early on that most Record customers were already Reason users to begin with and I remember tons of people feeling upset that they were now going to be required to "double-upgrade" just to get audio track recording in Reason. The press gave them flack for it too. Ultimately merging them together just made sense because so many users were running it like that anyway. The problem now is that as a DAW it has a lot of growing up to do and new expectations to fulfill. Plenty of growing pains ahead, I think, and some alienated users as well. But, like I've said before, you can still unhook the SSL mixer, hide the sequencer and run Reason's rack straight into the Rewire outputs like the old days. They haven't nerfed it. :)

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Tronam wrote:The problem now is that as a DAW it has a lot of growing up to do and new expectations to fulfill. Plenty of growing pains ahead, I think, and some alienated users as well. But, like I've said before, you can still unhook the SSL mixer, hide the sequencer and run Reason's rack straight into the Rewire outputs like the old days. They haven't nerfed it. :)
I think you nailed the question. And yes, you are right. People who mainly use Reason as a ReWire thing can still use it that way, but for those, this new version brings hardly anything to go for. Therefore, the disappointment and the frustration. The sampler, for example, hasn't been retouched since version 3 or something. Subtractor pretty much remains as it was in the beginning. And they have been launching some pretty good instruments, like the FM synthesizer, but as RE extensions (and not cheap, although not that expensive either). The last really good synth they launched in Reason was Thor.

I like the recording facilities, and the SSL emulation, but this RE thing is probably what has been distracting them from caring about the niche market they had, and I hope it will not be their coffin in the end. The last thing we ever need was "another" plug-in format.
Fernando (FMR)

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Tronam wrote:From a KvR point of view I understand the bewilderment over the direction Propellerhead has been taking Reason, especially since version 6, because I'd imagine most are Rewiring it with other software. There are plenty of other users though who love working in the program and have long wanted it to grow beyond its virtual rack to become a legitimate DAW in its own right. This demand is probably what led to the development of their Record product in the first place, as a way to appease both types of users and keep both products focused. That's pretty ambitious for a small company, maintaining two "flagship" products like this and I bet it dragged down development considerably. That period was the slowest ever release cycle for Reason, three years between v4 and v5 for two devices, one new and one an update. I bet the Props discovered very early on that most Record customers were already Reason users to begin with and I remember tons of people feeling upset that they were now going to be required to "double-upgrade" just to get audio track recording in Reason. The press gave them flack for it too. Ultimately merging them together just made sense because so many users were running it like that anyway. The problem now is that as a DAW it has a lot of growing up to do and new expectations to fulfill. Plenty of growing pains ahead, I think, and some alienated users as well. But, like I've said before, you can still unhook the SSL mixer, hide the sequencer and run Reason's rack straight into the Rewire outputs like the old days. They haven't nerfed it. :)
Wow.

Now you mention it, the way Record was marketed was the first step of Propellerhead stepping into Corporate bullshit land. I'm GLAD they got flack. They should have. Ever since then, its been around every single corner.

Next, was how terribly the Balance interface was marketed. Props was so greedy for money, they packaged it with software that most people who wanted Balance already owned! They couldn't just sell it at a Market price, they had to jack up the price by offering software than most people never would touch.

Now, Reason 8 with no updated devices, nothing but features that should have been implemented a long time ago. Props are SO slow at catching up to the competition, that Reason is seen as a toy - not a serious production tool.

Are you a spokesperson for Propellerhead, Tronam?

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Tronam wrote:Plenty of growing pains ahead, I think, and some alienated users as well. But, like I've said before, you can still unhook the SSL mixer, hide the sequencer and run Reason's rack straight into the Rewire outputs like the old days. They haven't nerfed it. :)
I look at it much simpler than that. What am I getting for $129 if I upgrade on the 30th? Since I am one of those users that prefer to use Reason as a rewire host, or a standalone instrument I get nothing. Same factory bank. Same devices. Very minor changes to my workflow with it. And what's worse: some of my personal combinators that use Line 6 devices I now have to re-tune with Softube if I upgrade.

If you feel what they are offering is worth the money, that's great. I don't. I'll wait to see what R9 brings.
fmr wrote:And they have been launching some pretty good instruments, like the FM synthesizer, but as RE extensions (and not cheap, although not that expensive either). The last really good synth they launched in Reason was Thor.
I agree 100%. I wish they'd add oversampling quality switches to the back of the older devices to let us choose to make them alias less but sound a bit different. I'm also disappointed with the modulation options of the new PHead REs. Just look at the back of PX7 as one example. I can't use one of the EGs with other devices, can't send in audio input as a carrier or modulator. It's a closed device: very un-Propellerhead of the R4/R5 timeframe when I used to really like their style.

It's disappointing to me. They used to make digital audio legos. Now they are trying to make it into what everyone else sells but without proper plugin support.

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Mr. Fister wrote: Wow.

Now you mention it, the way Record was marketed was the first step of Propellerhead stepping into Corporate bullshit land. I'm GLAD they got flack. They should have. Ever since then, its been around every single corner.

Next, was how terribly the Balance interface was marketed. Props was so greedy for money, they packaged it with software that most people who wanted Balance already owned! They couldn't just sell it at a Market price, they had to jack up the price by offering software than most people never would touch.

Now, Reason 8 with no updated devices, nothing but features that should have been implemented a long time ago. Props are SO slow at catching up to the competition, that Reason is seen as a toy - not a serious production tool.
From what I understand Record development started in parallel back around 2004 and took 5 years to complete. At the time I think Record was an attempt to keep the Reason "concept" from getting diluted and this thread is a perfect example why. After 12 years of rack device oriented upgrades, the moment they brought audio track recording into Reason and started focusing on DAW features tons of Rewire users now feel like each update is "useless" and has nothing to offer. This probably won't be changing anytime soon.

I don't know anything about Balance or why it was priced as high as it was. I never owned one. My Nord Lead cost me nearly $2000 though, so I'm not oblivious to high priced Swedish hardware.

I've always thought the Props were glacially slow in the past, especially in the mid-2000s, but not lately at all. They have evolved Reason more quickly over the past ~2 years than the past 14. They're just starting way behind the curve, at least relative to other more mature DAWs and have a lot of catching up to do. I wouldn't call any modern DAW a "toy" though. I've been around long enough to not take any of these software tools for granted and respect what they've all made possible in such a relatively short period of time in this industry.

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Line6 amps are still there I'm pretty sure. They aren't going away immediately at least for 8.

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bmrzycki wrote:I look at it much simpler than that. What am I getting for $129 if I upgrade on the 30th? Since I am one of those users that prefer to use Reason as a rewire host, or a standalone instrument I get nothing. Same factory bank. Same devices. Very minor changes to my workflow with it. And what's worse: some of my personal combinators that use Line 6 devices I now have to re-tune with Softube if I upgrade.

If you feel what they are offering is worth the money, that's great. I don't. I'll wait to see what R9 brings.
I don't think anyone is suggesting you should feel obligated to upgrade. You wouldn't see much benefit in this case, especially if you already updated last year. Not every upgrade is tailored to me either. I went from R3 to R7, so in that case I feel like I got my $129 worth. :)

Just to clarify though, the Line6 devices are not being retroactively removed from any version of Reason that already included them so they'll still be available. They're not being phased out until mid-2016 and then simply won't be included in a future version (probably v9 or 10).

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