Hello guys !
I would like to share with you my opinion about the KVR DC 2014, since a lot of people are still complaining about the results, about fairness in the way the entries have been developed, the ability for everyone including the developers to vote, the lack of innovation or interest in some plugins according to some KVRians...
First, it may sound a little demagogic, but I think everybody participating there deserved to win something, since they have all developed something personal, and they have given it for free to all the musicians community. Some of them are doing this professionnally, and others have used their free time to participate, being alone to develop the whole stuff. Their motivation may be different, some of them have participated to win, others to get some fame, other ones for challenging themselves, for some kind of pure altruism, and sometimes because they expect this to change their life in a better way. Just for that, they deserve also some kind of respect, one thing I have not been able to see in a lot of comments about the entries unfortunately.
Second, I would like to thank the KVR staff for having organized this Developer Challenge again. I don't know them at all, and the way the staff work for KVR, but they look very busy all the time for me. And I can't imagine that organizing that has not increased a lot the workload on them, and yet they have been able to make it so the results have been out quickly. And they have still some work to do for giving all the prizes, the money, and organizing the travel to Boston for the winner. So thanks a lot to them also !
Third, I have to confess like others did before that I have been really surprised by the final result. For me, Emissary and Nova67P were the obvious winners. And the KVR ranks for each products, available every day, told that too, with Emissary being above everybody. At the end, things didn't happen this way. And it's perfectly understandable, as I'm going to share my point of view on this. As a result it would be really unfair to suggest that Multiply didn't deserve to win, or won thanks to a Pro Tools forum users, or anything like that.
My opinion about this KVR Developer Challenge
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
Last edited by Ivan_C on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
For me, the KVR Developer Challenge 2014 had a particular meaning, since I want to launch a business next year. I wanted to get as much information as possible to answer to the question I'm asking myself : upon all the ideas I have, which one should I choose to develop my first product, so it would be successful ? In a way, it is the same question some developers have asked themselves before competing here, to choose what to develop for the KVR DC14.
Some people suggest that innovation should be ideally the best indicator for the value of a product. But innovation has absolutely no meaning at all if it is not connected with real people needs. What's the meaning of one revolutionary tool if nobody has any use for it ? Moreover, innovation implies change. If someone releases a truly innovative tool which matches with some people needs, they may ignore it only because they don't want to change the way they work, which may be enough efficient for them. They don't want to be as efficient as possible in what they do, they just want actually to do what they do.
So, what is really relevant ? It includes a lot of things. For example, having a nice GUI. A lot of people here should have heard about the experiment where people have to tell between two digital effects the one they prefer, one being controlled with a beautiful GUI, and not the other. At the end, everybody voted for the beautiful one, even if they sounded exactly the same, sharing the same exact effect algorithm. Having nice demos (audio & video) too. It helps people to understand the true value of a product, and if they need it, faster than if they have to try it, since they also have to fight against their natural defensive tendancy against change. I would have liked to make some audio demos for my product, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find the time...
And then, communication. For example, about Nova67P. I think it is a great product, and it may be very useful for anybody doing production or mastering. But it is also a tool very difficult to understand at first in my opinion, since what it does looks like nothing else in what we all know. It is not an EQ, neither a multi-band compressor, neither a dynamic EQ, it is all these things at the same time, and more. And the initial GUI wasn't something really helping to overcome the obstacles to understanding. So here is an important question : do you think Nova67P would have maked it to the 2nd place if it wasn't done by vladg ? Seriously, I don't think so. But, since people knew a little his previous work, they were able to try a little more to understand what was the point with Nova67P, and they knew vladg's skills for doing tools for production. Don't understand it wrongly : what I mean isn't that communication alone has allowed Nova67P to be second. What I mean is that it has helped people to understand the true value of Nova67P, so they have voted for him, whereas they would have given up if it was for someone else. That's totally different. That's something most companies try to do : make some fame with some easy to understand products at first, then release deeper ones, in a context where they will be quickly grasped.
It is the way for your work to reach people in need, a way for developers to be understood by customers, in a same way that artists are doing marketing so their art will reach as much people as possible. Even if artist do art for themselves first, work of art without people watching loses a lot of its meaning... And if you want your art/your software, free or commercial, to reach as much people as possible, you had to use all the shortcuts possible, so people will understand what you do and what you want as easily as possible. This means doing a nice GUI, doing some demos, talking about what you do and how to use your tools as much as possible, giving respect and empathy to people interested, and of course, doing something useful, maybe fun to use, and which sounds good.
Then, forth, here is why Acon Digital Multiply won : because their chorus sounds good, they had demos, the GUI is really beautiful and easy to use, a lot of people has potentially a need for such a good chorus, they communicated efficiently about their product, they did a manual and released their plug-in in all the available formats useful. That's all. My entry wasn't at this level (others above my entry in the rank, and some under performed better too IMO !). Congratulations again Acon Digital
Some people suggest that innovation should be ideally the best indicator for the value of a product. But innovation has absolutely no meaning at all if it is not connected with real people needs. What's the meaning of one revolutionary tool if nobody has any use for it ? Moreover, innovation implies change. If someone releases a truly innovative tool which matches with some people needs, they may ignore it only because they don't want to change the way they work, which may be enough efficient for them. They don't want to be as efficient as possible in what they do, they just want actually to do what they do.
So, what is really relevant ? It includes a lot of things. For example, having a nice GUI. A lot of people here should have heard about the experiment where people have to tell between two digital effects the one they prefer, one being controlled with a beautiful GUI, and not the other. At the end, everybody voted for the beautiful one, even if they sounded exactly the same, sharing the same exact effect algorithm. Having nice demos (audio & video) too. It helps people to understand the true value of a product, and if they need it, faster than if they have to try it, since they also have to fight against their natural defensive tendancy against change. I would have liked to make some audio demos for my product, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find the time...
And then, communication. For example, about Nova67P. I think it is a great product, and it may be very useful for anybody doing production or mastering. But it is also a tool very difficult to understand at first in my opinion, since what it does looks like nothing else in what we all know. It is not an EQ, neither a multi-band compressor, neither a dynamic EQ, it is all these things at the same time, and more. And the initial GUI wasn't something really helping to overcome the obstacles to understanding. So here is an important question : do you think Nova67P would have maked it to the 2nd place if it wasn't done by vladg ? Seriously, I don't think so. But, since people knew a little his previous work, they were able to try a little more to understand what was the point with Nova67P, and they knew vladg's skills for doing tools for production. Don't understand it wrongly : what I mean isn't that communication alone has allowed Nova67P to be second. What I mean is that it has helped people to understand the true value of Nova67P, so they have voted for him, whereas they would have given up if it was for someone else. That's totally different. That's something most companies try to do : make some fame with some easy to understand products at first, then release deeper ones, in a context where they will be quickly grasped.
It is the way for your work to reach people in need, a way for developers to be understood by customers, in a same way that artists are doing marketing so their art will reach as much people as possible. Even if artist do art for themselves first, work of art without people watching loses a lot of its meaning... And if you want your art/your software, free or commercial, to reach as much people as possible, you had to use all the shortcuts possible, so people will understand what you do and what you want as easily as possible. This means doing a nice GUI, doing some demos, talking about what you do and how to use your tools as much as possible, giving respect and empathy to people interested, and of course, doing something useful, maybe fun to use, and which sounds good.
Then, forth, here is why Acon Digital Multiply won : because their chorus sounds good, they had demos, the GUI is really beautiful and easy to use, a lot of people has potentially a need for such a good chorus, they communicated efficiently about their product, they did a manual and released their plug-in in all the available formats useful. That's all. My entry wasn't at this level (others above my entry in the rank, and some under performed better too IMO !). Congratulations again Acon Digital
Last edited by Ivan_C on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
Anyway, the only complain I have about the KVR DC14, and I have not seen anybody talking about it yet, is that the challenge has occured during August, when a lot of people is in holidays, and unavailable to vote for the entries. I can imagine the main reason for that is the A3E being in late September, but the challenge would have been more satisfactory for everybody I think if it was launched in October for example, so that the donations would have been greater, and more people would have been able to try everybody's entries and to vote. I hope the next KVR DC won't happen during the summer 
I have written such a long post since I wanted to say a lot of things
Don't forget, it is just my fifty cents I had to share, and a way to try to extinguish some of the polemics
I have written such a long post since I wanted to say a lot of things
Don't forget, it is just my fifty cents I had to share, and a way to try to extinguish some of the polemics -
- KVRian
- 1466 posts since 1 Jan, 2005 from Norway
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I couldn't agree more and wish you all the best with your new business. I'd also like to join you and express our appreciation to the KVR team for organizing the KVR DC - many thanks!
Best,
Stian
Best,
Stian
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- KVRian
- 1494 posts since 13 Sep, 2012
First of all: don't take KVR as a good market indicator 
KVR is a special environment with special users...often ppl vote in the last minute & the results are surprising (see OSC); also (IMO) members' tastes are (sometimes) very particular That aside...
Talking from a user/consumer's point of view:
I think you should really consider what sort of plugin to create in the future - instruments vs effects. I for example couldn't care less about fx and the market is saturated; even if a new product with some nifty features surfaces, the chances to get me interested are slim. While I'm always willing to test a new synth, even if it's nothing new. For others may be theother way round...
Second, make sure the product works as it should before releasing it. I find buggy plugins really annoying. Even if they're often patched/improved, I still find the whole process of constantly updating it annoying. Thing is that I've already established my workflow & the "tools" that help keeping it fast & smooth, so in order for a new plugin to be added to my current setup it really needs to be hassle free (or almost).
Third, yes, I confess, I'm a sucker for eye candy. I do prefer a nice GUI over an ugly one. Actually I don't use fugly looking plugins - even if they're very good at what they do - simply because now there's plenty to choose from On the other hand, I also prefer the plugins with a logical and simple layout - but then again I'm not a tweaking addict so I don't mind not having every single paremeter crammed in a one page GUI.
Yes, reputation is paramount for an independent developer. Keeping a close relationship with your clients, being often available on forums and social media platforms make a big difference. That way U-He for example gained my utmost respect, while my faith in Tone2 went down the drain But of course, I'm being higly subjective - which is actually the point, 'cause ppl are subjective It's kind of difficult to support a developer if you see him acting like a... well, you know (not implying the aforementioned ones were).
So have a clear vision of what you want to do, create a solid product and make everything in your power to promote & support it
Best of luck
KVR is a special environment with special users...often ppl vote in the last minute & the results are surprising (see OSC); also (IMO) members' tastes are (sometimes) very particular That aside...Talking from a user/consumer's point of view:
I think you should really consider what sort of plugin to create in the future - instruments vs effects. I for example couldn't care less about fx and the market is saturated; even if a new product with some nifty features surfaces, the chances to get me interested are slim. While I'm always willing to test a new synth, even if it's nothing new. For others may be theother way round...
Second, make sure the product works as it should before releasing it. I find buggy plugins really annoying. Even if they're often patched/improved, I still find the whole process of constantly updating it annoying. Thing is that I've already established my workflow & the "tools" that help keeping it fast & smooth, so in order for a new plugin to be added to my current setup it really needs to be hassle free (or almost).
Third, yes, I confess, I'm a sucker for eye candy. I do prefer a nice GUI over an ugly one. Actually I don't use fugly looking plugins - even if they're very good at what they do - simply because now there's plenty to choose from
On the other hand, I also prefer the plugins with a logical and simple layout - but then again I'm not a tweaking addict so I don't mind not having every single paremeter crammed in a one page GUI.Yes, reputation is paramount for an independent developer. Keeping a close relationship with your clients, being often available on forums and social media platforms make a big difference. That way U-He for example gained my utmost respect, while my faith in Tone2 went down the drain
But of course, I'm being higly subjective - which is actually the point, 'cause ppl are subjective It's kind of difficult to support a developer if you see him acting like a... well, you know (not implying the aforementioned ones were). So have a clear vision of what you want to do, create a solid product and make everything in your power to promote & support it
Best of luck
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP.
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location
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- KVRAF
- 2063 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from $HOME
Wolfen, you pretty much nailed it, I agree with you completely. Good luck for your business, your DC contribution shows that you have a mind of your own and a sense for innovation and usability at the same time.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
Thanks a lot everybody for the nice comments
idfpower > I agree with everything you said too Anyway, I think the importance of effects vs instruments is not that simple. When you see that effects have clearly won the KVR DC 14, or the success of products such as VoS or Fabfilter ones, you can see there is still room for them in a business perspective. It's just that a new company which want to develop effects will have a hard time looking for something which has not been done yet, and is really relevant in this market. In the other side, I think it would be difficult to run a successful business doing only virtual analog synths
idfpower > I agree with everything you said too
Anyway, I think the importance of effects vs instruments is not that simple. When you see that effects have clearly won the KVR DC 14, or the success of products such as VoS or Fabfilter ones, you can see there is still room for them in a business perspective. It's just that a new company which want to develop effects will have a hard time looking for something which has not been done yet, and is really relevant in this market. In the other side, I think it would be difficult to run a successful business doing only virtual analog synths -
- KVRist
- 183 posts since 15 Jul, 2009 from Russia
Okay, next DC I'll try to participate under some nickname just for kicks
I want to say, the entry which won DC12 has a lot of common with DC14 winnner. It was simple, beautiful, useful for almost everybody and professionally created. The only difference is multiplatform support. It seems in 2014 it's very very important. For example for SlickEQ release in 2014 we had more than 50% interest from Mac users. In 2013 from my statistics they were roughly 50/50 and in 2012 they were less than 50%. Most Mac users prefer Logic X now so AU is must have.
About AAX. In 2014 I see the raising interest to ProTool whereas in 2012 it looked like abandoned one and a lot of users were switching to another DAWs.
About commercial startup check Klanghelm strategy for their initial plugins (VU meter and compressor). I think it's the nice strategy to mimic. Also in my opinion KVR community represents freeware market better than payed one (but I may be wrong here).
Just my 5c
I want to say, the entry which won DC12 has a lot of common with DC14 winnner. It was simple, beautiful, useful for almost everybody and professionally created. The only difference is multiplatform support. It seems in 2014 it's very very important. For example for SlickEQ release in 2014 we had more than 50% interest from Mac users. In 2013 from my statistics they were roughly 50/50 and in 2012 they were less than 50%. Most Mac users prefer Logic X now so AU is must have.
About AAX. In 2014 I see the raising interest to ProTool whereas in 2012 it looked like abandoned one and a lot of users were switching to another DAWs.
About commercial startup check Klanghelm strategy for their initial plugins (VU meter and compressor). I think it's the nice strategy to mimic. Also in my opinion KVR community represents freeware market better than payed one (but I may be wrong here).
Just my 5c
Vlad from Tokyo Dawn Labs
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
Hi vladg ! I hope what I have written has not offensed you in any way, that wasn't the goal
You are right about the need for multiplatform support. Logic X has became very well implemented in the musicians community, and the last Pro Tools has been able to stop the leak of professional leaving this DAW for another one which happened a few years ago.
And thanks for the tips about strategy
You are right about the need for multiplatform support. Logic X has became very well implemented in the musicians community, and the last Pro Tools has been able to stop the leak of professional leaving this DAW for another one which happened a few years ago.
And thanks for the tips about strategy
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- KVRian
- 509 posts since 1 May, 2006 from lancaster, pa
For what it's worth, I agree.vladg wrote:Okay, next DC I'll try to participate under some nickname just for kicks
About AAX. In 2014 I see the raising interest to ProTool whereas in 2012 it looked like abandoned one and a lot of users were switching to another DAWs.
About commercial startup check Klanghelm strategy for their initial plugins (VU meter and compressor). I think it's the nice strategy to mimic. Also in my opinion KVR community represents freeware market better than payed one (but I may be wrong here).
Just my 5c
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- KVRAF
- 25852 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
For me Emissary is a niche product, it is good for a certain thing.Third, I have to confess like others did before that I have been really surprised by the final result. For me, Emissary and Nova67P were the obvious winners.
In the future I hope there will be separate polls for synth and FX plugs, as I am tired of seeing synth plugs not getting recognized.
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- KVRian
- 1091 posts since 8 Feb, 2012 from South - Africa
Yeah, I have to confess too, didn't see the number 1 spot taken by Acon. But I can see why it won - and there is nothing wrong or dodgy with that.Wolfen666 wrote: Third, I have to confess like others did before that I have been really surprised by the final result. For me, Emissary and Nova67P were the obvious winners. And the KVR ranks for each products, available every day, told that too, with Emissary being above everybody. At the end, things didn't happen this way. And it's perfectly understandable, as I'm going to share my point of view on this. As a result it would be really unfair to suggest that Multiply didn't deserve to win, or won thanks to a Pro Tools forum users, or anything like that.
As for your business - good luck! I think the most important thing learnt from the past DC is that marketing plays a significant role and I'd suggest having a solid plan in place i.e. what if the hype dies down after 3 months? What will you do if someone publicly attacks you person/integrity? Having a strategy beforehand will keep you level-headed, goal orientated, transparent and prevent reactive responces that might hurt you and your company in the future. Vladg's idea is also excellent - keep it simple and straight forward in the beginning, people's willingness to overcome the learning curve should be an impotant factor.
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- KVRist
- 183 posts since 15 Jul, 2009 from Russia
+1Numanoid wrote:In the future I hope there will be separate polls for synth and FX plugs, as I am tired of seeing synth plugs not getting recognized.
This year a lot of top entries: Acon Digital Multiply, Nova-67P, Emissary, Lokomotiv, Guitar Gadgets, Toned, ReFine, ... have their Mac versions. It means separate Windows / Mac voting is useless now. Let it be 2 nominations: effect and synth one. Or even different challenges
Vlad from Tokyo Dawn Labs
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1153 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from Breuillet, France
Thanks everybody for the advice 
!
I agree it would make some sense to separate instruments (not only synths !) and effects for the next one, instead of Windows and Mac OS X !
!I agree it would make some sense to separate instruments (not only synths !) and effects for the next one, instead of Windows and Mac OS X !
