I'd like to expore the Arabic 24 tones

[Mister Natural]

from Wiki : The modern Arab tone system, or system of musical tuning, is based upon the theoretical division of the octave into twenty-four equal divisions or 24-tone equal temperament (24-TET), the distance between each successive note being a quarter tone (50 cents). Each tone has its own name not repeated in different octaves, unlike systems featuring octave equivalency. The lowest tone is named yakah and is determined by the lowest pitch in the range of the singer. The next higher octave is nawa and the second tuti.[1] However, from these twenty-four tones seven are selected to produce a scale and thus the interval of a quarter tone is never used and the three-quarter tone or neutral second should be considered the characteristic interval. . . "

I think I read that to say that one works with 7 tones within a chosen scale - scaled by three-quarter tones (neutral second being whatever it might be - never heard of this interval before)

My question is : are there any common / affordable synths that allow micro-tuning like this - the ability to build a 7 tone scale divided by 150 cents per ?

peace

[Sendy]

Any synth with a mod matrix can be tuned to any kind of equal temperament, just set keyfollow to modulate pitch, and adjust until the desired interval/keyspan sounds an octave.

[planetearth]

My question is : are there any common / affordable synths that allow micro-tuning like this - the ability to build a 7 tone scale divided by 150 cents per ?

peace

Many newer software synths will also let you import Scala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_%28software%29) or other, "preset" tunings. Depending upon the softsynths you have, you may already have quarter-tone or other tunings available to you.

Steve

[MadBrain]

Arabic music is generally not polyphonic, so I think the most practical way for most synths is simply to set the pitch bend to a low range (1 or 2 semitones) and bend down the quarter tone notes that way. This kind of fast bending is appropriate for the style too, AFAIK. (note: I'm not actually Arabic and this is just what I've read from the Maqam World website)

Only certain Arabic scales use quarter tones:

Rast (quarter tone major):
C D E½b F G A B½b (the B½b can be changed for Bb on the way down)

Bayati (quarter-tone minor/phygian):
D E½b F G A B½b C (the B½b can be changed for Bb on the way down)

Sikah:
E½b F G A B½b C D (very strange, G is the "dominant" but it almost sounds like a tonic, Bb can appear on the way down)

Sikah baladdi:
G A½b B½b C D E½b F½# (variant of Sikah)

[jancivil]

from Wiki : The modern Arab tone system, or system of musical tuning, is based upon the theoretical division of the octave into twenty-four equal divisions or 24-tone equal temperament (24-TET), the distance between each successive note being a quarter tone (50 cents). Each tone has its own name not repeated in different octaves, unlike systems featuring octave equivalency. The lowest tone is named yakah and is determined by the lowest pitch in the range of the singer. The next higher octave is nawa and the second tuti.[1] However, from these twenty-four tones seven are selected to produce a scale and thus the interval of a quarter tone is never used and the three-quarter tone or neutral second should be considered the characteristic interval. . . "

I think I read that to say that one works with 7 tones within a chosen scale - scaled by three-quarter tones (neutral second being whatever it might be - never heard of this interval before)

My question is : are there any common / affordable synths that allow micro-tuning like this - the ability to build a 7 tone scale divided by 150 cents per ?

peace

Arabic music is not based in 24 equal divisions. That is an ignorant conclusion based in a lazy reading of the facts and someone needs to address that wiki article.
It's a long story, but as one looks at this conclusive 'quarter tones are never actually used' it should tend to make one examine the premise.

The basis is ratios and no one thing or type of interval is the characteristic one. You can arrive at a truism, one of the first things a westerner will notice is an in-between third but also, too a very small semitone out of it. This maqam will have its intervals, that maqam will have others, and these two things in another region will be different things still.

The point to it is expression. Don't know if you care about this very much, but this thing out of that particular wiki is not a system that will do really anything towards capturing the character of Arabic musics, it's just some theory talk and I would be generous to call it half-baked.

[Mister Natural]

Jan - thx for your feedback

would you agree with MadBrain's generous suggestions at arriving at Arab-esque tunings ?

[jancivil]

I would want one to really define 'half flat' and 'half sharp' rather than go on 'quarter tone' for meaning per se.

What I'm going to do for you real quick is show you a few scalas from Arabic musicians. These are pretty much just rounded off, so you can get a quick look at the intervals in cents.




and OTOH (and for posterity) a paper which gets into detail, in order to signal how much real variance there is.

Intonation.doc

[jancivil]

So where you see 'Rast on C, Jiharkah on F', 12 tones are given to give a quick scan as though to represent a modulation in particular terms, it really is only seven notes in a melodic idea as a basis.

That wiki is kind of a bane on the whole thing unfortunately.

These are for VSL Vienna Instruments Pro which can only take a 12 tone scala so some things are filled in/placeholders I reckon, or duplicated but at least here are some other intervals you can maybe play around with and see what you enjoy out of a basis that is somewhat more real.

[paulhart]

Offer to "correct" the Wiki, so the whole world benefits from the knowledge. Wikipedia is a shared "Alexandrian" library of the modern age, but it is only as good as the information provided. Give your share and help all of us understand.
Paul

[jancivil]

I'm not going to be writing authoritatively on this either, though. I have edited such things and fairly boldly but there are a number of problems with that and the whole thing needs to be rewritten, not just chopped at.

[MadBrain]

I'm not going to be writing authoritatively on this either, though. I have edited such things and fairly boldly but there are a number of problems with that and the whole thing needs to be rewritten, not just chopped at.

Right. The music theory articles on Wikipedia are unfortunately kinda sad and include stuff like this.

[jancivil]

Oh good lord. There's no help for that one. Some guy finds a scale in a guitar scales book and had to make a wiki.