1176, LA2A, FC670 Help needed!

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I need all those 3 Emulations, i know about most of them, i have tried few of them,
i own the NF Integral Studio which has this Emus but i don't know...my Choices are
Waves and IK...unless there is something else. What would be a better choice?
I know this is based on a LOT of things and does not necessarily mean one is better
then the other...i just wanna hear opinions or something new out there.
Or try to get Nebula Pro and then find these Emus?
I also have SS VBC collection valid for few more weeks...

Thanks
Reality is a Condition due to Lack of Weed!

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Yo!

I've been liking your posts so I thought I'd add my two cents. I don't have a strong opinion on any of these so I'll just talk about some of my observations. They are to be taking with a grain of salt of course as I'm sure my "matter of fact" observations might offend others that have a preference for one plug or another.

1176:
Waves CLA (black, blue): I like the smack of the CLA 1176 comps but I feel like they can make the whole sound signal a bit more "2d" sounding than some of the others. By that I mean they seem to lose a bit of the depth, bigness versus some of the others.

IK Multimedia Black: Nice, fast attack, approaches the responsiveness of a real unit. A bit more clean sounding than others and a bit more 3D sounding. Doesn't quite have the same attitude as the CLA compressors but is quite nice.

Native Instruments VC76 : Lots of smack, lots of attitude. I would say this has a really fast attack just like IK Black but is a bit meaner sounding. It has a bit more grit as compared to the more pristine-sounding IK Black. Doesn't quite sound as "3D" as the IK Black but I find the signal comes up bigger than what I can get with the Waves CLA comps. What I don't like is that you can't push it as hard as say IK Black or the Softube FET as it can distort really badly very quickly.

Stripbus: I would say this is not quite as fast acting as some of the others. It can distort quite easily if you are not careful. It can get really grimey in a good way if you like that ALL Buttons type vibe but the actual controls are more of a traditional compressor as the GUI does not resemble a real 1176.

HoRNet Fat-Fet/MultiComp: The Fet is based on the blue as opposed to black. Nice and snappy like real hardware. More in the clean sounding vein of compressors. Doesn't quite sound as 3D or "big" sounding as the Ik Black.

Softube FET: You'll need a dongle for this. Very fast attack....Not as dark sounding as the VC76. Doesn't have the same exact controls as an 1176 but the character and behavior is there. This is a fan favorite of a lot posters.

Nebula Gemini 1176 library: Probably the closest to the real deal as you'll get. But at a cost. First you have do custom tweaks to the Nebula sampler. Second you need to use two instances. One for using sampled compression behavior and one for the color. It's all heavy on the CPU and inconvenient. It captures most of the vibe of the 1176 but it can't do extreme distortion (ALL Buttons) or "super fast" compression like the real 1176 can.

Nebula 1176 Rev Clone library: Has the color and some of the vibe but the compression action seems to be slow compared to the real deal. There's also very limited settings.

Nebula U76 Limiter: No experience.

Audiocation AC1: Freebie coded by Christian Budde. This is cleaner sounding and does have a fast attack. I do prefer commercial alternatives. I'm not a fan of how it handles transients on all sources. Sometimes I hear a clicky noise with this plug.

UAD: not enough experience to comment

Stillwell Rocket: never tried

There's plenty of other options like the protools b. factory, mcdsp bundles, steinberg compressor 276, minimal systems punch evolved, DCAM bundle, even the old free antress plugs (not sure if these really do much of anything)

This is a good comparison of a bunch of the above listed comps. If you click on the poster's channel, you'll see that he also compared other sound sources like vox as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAjzFam8xIM

LA2A:

Eh LA2a is not my thing. I don't know much about this but there's a version of it from virtually all of the developers above. Also worth noting that Bootsy's Thrillseeker LA is a freebie that gets a lot of love but I don't have much experience with it.

Fairchild 670:

Overtone FC70 : Really nice compressor that smoothly tames transients and has a hint of character but more clean sounding the real hardware piece. Sounds good on almost anything.

Waves Puigchild: It compresses in an obvious way. Seems to to be a bit more aggressive sounding than the other Fairchild attempts almost to the point where it seems like a caricature.

IK Vintage Compressor: It does smooth transients in a smooth way without making your signal sound smaller (like the puigchild does to an extent) but it sounds more "cloudy" to me than the Overtone.

Nebula Cupwise Library: Nails the color and character totally. Not sure if it compresses exactly like the real unit but is really great.

Slate VBC: Well it's a hybrid of the Vari Mu and Fairchild 670. But I've heard it has enough of the character to be considered. No direct experience.

Worth noting, a helpful tip is to stack a compressor that nails the behavior of these comps and then use Nebula in series after the software vst plug for the color/vibe. Henry Olonga created mojo libraries for Nebula for this purpose. He has both UA and Urei 1176 mojo libraries, an LA2A mojo library, and a Fairchild library. You can also use the Gemini and Cupwise libraries (line amp) for this purpose as well. Using the line amp will have more color than the mojo libraries but either could be useful depending on usage.
IK Fairchild

Also, it doesn't hurt to check out some of the inexpensive and freebie alternatives. I am happy with the HoRNet Fat-Fet that came free with an issue of Computer Magazine. My personal favorites are the Softube FET and VC76 (when the source isn't too dark) and Overtone FC 70. Again, I'm not well-versed in the LA2a stuff so I'll refrain from choosing a favorite.

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I have the IK T-Racks set which contains 1176/LA2A/FC670 models and I'm really pleased with it. The 1176 & LA2A sounded far more dynamic to me than the equivalents from the NI/Softube Vintage Compressor set which seemed quite lifeless.

The only other LA2A example I've used is the Cakewalk CA-2A which I would also recommend for some smooth compression.

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NI (Softube) or Waves CLA (both are very good, I like NI/Softube a bit more). For the Fairchild, the Slate VBC is very good (do you really need a Fairchild??)

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Thanks AC222,
you gave me a lot of information to research. I have tried/demoed almost all of the above mentioned
and in situations like this its really hard, price wise they are all around the same corner.
I think no matter what i choose it will still be good. I really like SS VBC, the FG-MU does something
to the sound just by turning it on, that is something that i will definitely buy in few months but first i wanna
get this classic rack of Compressors. I still lean more towards IK.
DB3, i kinda feel the same, there is something to IK, at least for me. Maybe i am biased by the Neve EQs
which i am planning to add later on too.
4Damind, problem is i used a real FC670 for years and it kinda got stuck to my ears.
Maybe i don't necessarily need it but you know it is and i am a cursed gear slut.
Reality is a Condition due to Lack of Weed!

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When it comes to the Fairchild, the IK version distorts transients in an unpleasant way. Load up a piano sample library and put the IK Comp670 on it. Now bang around hitting some higher velocities. The IK Comp670 will distort the transients. For that reason, I tend not to use it. The Slate Mu, which you already mentioned liking, isn't far off from a Fairchild (it's designed to be between a Fairchild and a Manley Vari-Mu) and doesn't exhibit this behavior, nor do the UAD versions. It's very input material specific though, for instance, I don't hear it on vocals, but piano will bring it right out.

Also, as a warning: IK's Black76 and White2A are good, but will increase the gain on your track by +10db. So if your host doesn't let you save a new default preset, that gets old very fast. Reason for this? When they first released the plugs, it was hard to get lets of compression out of either unit. Turns out the internal calibration was off, so they cranked up the input gain by +10db, but never compensated for these changes by dropping the output gain on default presets for either.

At the time of their initial releases, neither had any input stage modelling either, but IK later went in and added that. Honestly, based on the newer IK releases, I think if they did those 3 plugs over from scratch, they'd do a lot better. I'd still use these over most native versions of these units though. And I love the new IK Neve.

If you can afford buying a couple of Quad or Octo cards, and the plugins, the UAD platform has what I feel are consistently the best models of these comps. The 1176, LA-2A, and Fairchild collections are all fantastic. The problem with the platform is the weak/expensive DSP cards, the expensive plugins that you can only run a few instances of, and the latency. The quality of the UA coded plugins is consistently extremely high.

If I didn't already own the Black76 and the UAD 1176 Collection, and had to do it over, I probably would have gone with Softube's FET Compressor for an 1176 (I'd also look at Stilllwell's The Rocket again now it's 64-bit). The Softube version is great. Don't know why, but the version Softube coded for NI just didn't do it for me (I suspect they dumbed it down compared to FET Compressor). That's the problem with NI plugins in general: they contract so much out (even stuff not branded as being coded by a third party) that there's no consistency to their releases. One release may hit it out of the park, and another may be mediocre.
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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duplicate

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The question is more if you need it for Vinyl mastering (lat/vert) because the Fairchild was primary designed for this department or if it's more the overall sound and the M/S stuff is a good add-on. The Slate FG MU was modeled after the Fairchild 670 but they added characteristics of two modern Vari MU compressors. I'm not so much impressed with the Waves Puigchild and the same with IKM. With my testings Slate is not to beat for this emulations.
For the 1176/LA2A thing, I ended up with testing Waves vs NI/Softube .... since some time I use in all my productions the NI/Softube stuff. But to be honest I still love the Waves CLA and for me the only option would be the newer MK2 versions from the UAD2 (I have the old UAD versions which IMO cannot hold the candle to the other, newer (native) emulations).

IK is completely no recommendation. I've tested the plug-ins after the release and they missed the complete input modeling/transformer stuff. I asked the support and the answer was only "they are modeled exactly after the hardware" which was a lie. I heard they fixed this later maybe after more and more people came to the same conclusion that something is missing. Anyway, IK is a good marketing company but that's all.

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4damind wrote:Anyway, IK is a good marketing company but that's all.
I agree when it comes to the Black76, White2A, and Comp670, but if you haven't checked out their newer emulations, I suggest you do so. The difference between the modelling on the Black76 and their Neve EQ's is night and day IMO. The saturation and tone you get out of the IK 1073 is great.

Their 33609 emulation (Precision Comp) is better than the UAD version for my money (I own both and find the IK version much more useful on a variety of sources and again, just sounds better).

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
4damind wrote:Anyway, IK is a good marketing company but that's all.
I agree when it comes to the Black76, White2A, and Comp670, but if you haven't checked out their newer emulations, I suggest you do so. The difference between the modelling on the Black76 and their Neve EQ's is night and day IMO. The saturation and tone you get out of the IK 1073 is great.

Their 33609 emulation (Precision Comp) is better than the UAD version for my money (I own both and find the IK version much more useful on a variety of sources and again, just sounds better).
Yes, but I gave up with IKM. I don't trust this company. For the Neve EQ I wait for the VMR release by Slate. I expect it will be the most accurate emulation on the market. I read that they getting the FG-N (Afaik this is the 1073) to nearly cancel out with the hardware (!).

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Hi BasariStudios,

Glad you found my post to be somewhat helpful. I think you are right that whatever you choose, you'll find something you can use and be happy with. I totally forgot about the fact that Slate is also including an 1176 model in his mix rack. You can preorder on sale for $150 (if you have faith). My understanding is that it won't be an exact 1176 but more of a hotrodded 1176 to Steven's specifications. I don't have any basis to judge but who knows if this will be the king of 1176 software emulations. Aside from the 1176, you'll get a Neve EQ, SSL EQ, and another VCA compressor (not sure if it's DBX or SSL channel?).

http://www.jrrshop.com/slate-digital-vm ... ad-license

For what it's worth, I do find the sound of Nebula compressors to be the best hands down. But between the heavy CPU, setup, and tweaking it's a pain in the arse.

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:When it comes to the Fairchild, the IK version distorts transients in an unpleasant way. Load up a piano sample library and put the IK Comp670 on it. Now bang around hitting some higher velocities. The IK Comp670 will distort the transients. For that reason, I tend not to use it. The Slate Mu, which you already mentioned liking, isn't far off from a Fairchild (it's designed to be between a Fairchild and a Manley Vari-Mu) and doesn't exhibit this behavior, nor do the UAD versions. It's very input material specific though, for instance, I don't hear it on vocals, but piano will bring it right out.

Also, as a warning: IK's Black76 and White2A are good, but will increase the gain on your track by +10db. So if your host doesn't let you save a new default preset, that gets old very fast. Reason for this? When they first released the plugs, it was hard to get lets of compression out of either unit. Turns out the internal calibration was off, so they cranked up the input gain by +10db, but never compensated for these changes by dropping the output gain on default presets for either.

At the time of their initial releases, neither had any input stage modelling either, but IK later went in and added that. Honestly, based on the newer IK releases, I think if they did those 3 plugs over from scratch, they'd do a lot better. I'd still use these over most native versions of these units though. And I love the new IK Neve.

If you can afford buying a couple of Quad or Octo cards, and the plugins, the UAD platform has what I feel are consistently the best models of these comps. The 1176, LA-2A, and Fairchild collections are all fantastic. The problem with the platform is the weak/expensive DSP cards, the expensive plugins that you can only run a few instances of, and the latency. The quality of the UA coded plugins is consistently extremely high.

If I didn't already own the Black76 and the UAD 1176 Collection, and had to do it over, I probably would have gone with Softube's FET Compressor for an 1176 (I'd also look at Stilllwell's The Rocket again now it's 64-bit). The Softube version is great. Don't know why, but the version Softube coded for NI just didn't do it for me (I suspect they dumbed it down compared to FET Compressor). That's the problem with NI plugins in general: they contract so much out (even stuff not branded as being coded by a third party) that there's no consistency to their releases. One release may hit it out of the park, and another may be mediocre.
I'm going to say that I think all your observations are spot on imho. I actually agree with just about all your points. If I had any bone to pick I'd say that I don't think the NI comp is all that bad. It does distort too soon and it is a bit too dark sounding on certain source material but I do find that it has a very usable range that I can dig. Still, I find the Softube FET to be more natural sounding than the others (doesn't pinch the overall signal too much or have too much coloration) and does nail the "vibe" of the 1176 even if it isn't exactly the same with its attack, release behavior.

It's interesting to hear that the new generation of UAD plugins are that good. I did get a chance to try some of the older generation plugins and didn't come away all that impressed. But I hear the new 1176 collection is on another level. It's too bad that there is no way to test it without the dongle.

For what it's worth, I also agree that IK also stepped up their new comps big time. I found their Fairchild model to sound like it had a veil over it and did see it distorting a bit too quickly versus the Overtone version (wonder if you ever got a chance to try that one?).

I was surprised at how good the IK 33609 and especially the SSL comps sounded (I own both). Though I did 33609 with the Cupwise Nebula 33609 and it just sounded cleaner, bigger, and a bit more natural sounding on the less extreme settings. Still the IK was very impressive. I also wish IK would redo the units over as their new modeling techniques seem to have come a long way.

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AC222 wrote:Hi BasariStudios,

Glad you found my post to be somewhat helpful. I think you are right that whatever you choose, you'll find something you can use and be happy with. I totally forgot about the fact that Slate is also including an 1176 model in his mix rack. You can preorder on sale for $150 (if you have faith). My understanding is that it won't be an exact 1176 but more of a hotrodded 1176 to Steven's specifications. I don't have any basis to judge but who knows if this will be the king of 1176 software emulations. Aside from the 1176, you'll get a Neve EQ, SSL EQ, and another VCA compressor (not sure if it's DBX or SSL channel?).

http://www.jrrshop.com/slate-digital-vm ... ad-license
Slate's not doing an "all-buttons" mode for VMR, so how close of an 1176 model it will be is up for debate (sort of like how close is FG-Mu to a Fairchild).

And about FG-N nulling with the hardware: I guess only Steven will know. According to Slate, the algorithm for this model was completed months ago (prior to the start of 2014) and Steven has been in Gearslutz saying audio clips were coming soon for quite some time now (with nothing so far).

Plus, VMR was supposed to be released in January 2014 (announced October 2013?). So...yeah, I'd definitely recommend against a pre-order. We're approaching a full year on the date it was announced, and Slate swore up and down that he'd learned his lesson about announcing too far ahead of releases and repeatedly said VMR would be out on time.

So if we're talking about "good marketing companies," no one over-promises the way Slate does. Do the plugins deliver? Sure. But so do the newest IK plugs. And both Slate and IKMM are hype machines that run tons of promotions, so I'm honestly not sure how 4damind can support Slate but not IK. They're practically the same in my mind, except IK doesn't announce a T-Racks or Amplitube release until it's ready or close to (SampleTank3 is a different story all together).

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AC222 wrote:For what it's worth, I also agree that IK also stepped up their new comps big time. I found their Fairchild model to sound like it had a veil over it and did see it distorting a bit too quickly versus the Overtone version (wonder if you ever got a chance to try that one?). .
I never tried the Overtone one. Perhaps I should, but I'm trying to buy fewer plugs and make due with what I have (being house-poor has a lot to do with that). At this point, when I need a Mu style comp, I just go with Slate's FG-Mu. It boosts the mids in a way I really like on piano and guitars, and can work magic on certain mixes and busses.

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
AC222 wrote:For what it's worth, I also agree that IK also stepped up their new comps big time. I found their Fairchild model to sound like it had a veil over it and did see it distorting a bit too quickly versus the Overtone version (wonder if you ever got a chance to try that one?). .
I never tried the Overtone one. Perhaps I should, but I'm trying to buy fewer plugs and make due with what I have (being house-poor has a lot to do with that). At this point, when I need a Mu style comp, I just go with Slate's FG-Mu. It boosts the mids in a way I really like on piano and guitars, and can work magic on certain mixes and busses.

Ya, I like your keep it simple approach. Don't we all have too many plugins? :lol:

I'll have to check out that Mu. A lot of people have said that they like this emulation the most of the VBC compressors.

Cheers,

AC

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