Waldorf Largo + PPG Wave 3.V + Waldorf Edition: 64-bit/VST3/AAX updates

[raymondwave]

Is there a way to see in plugin which RC version you are running? I can only find 1.5.2

[Ingonator]

Is there a way to see in plugin which RC version you are running? I can only find 1.5.2

I don't think that the RC version is not found in the GUI or the credits if that is what you mean. The version number will stay at 1.5.2 for Largo.

[aMUSEd]

It would be useful to have more precise versioning for public and private betas though - like u-he plugins do. Then it saves confusion when talking about a particular version.

[amundsen_scott]

1.SAME PATCH, DIFFERENT SOUNDS : All programs I made on the older version sounded
a little bit different on the RC1. But small thing brings a big different feeling and character. When loading my patch, the sound of the filter cutoff is more murky(muddy?) on the new version. And ADSR envelopes sound slight different. Maybe the developers changed its source codes? It makes me sad. Because I have made hundreds of programs since 2011.

If I want to move to Logic X, I must buy another 3rd party's bit bridge application(32Lives e.g.) to keep the old version. What an irony! All I can say is that version 1.02 and new 1.03 are two different instruments.

Hi,

AFAIK there was no change in teh sound engine, at least it was not intended. I would have to do a direct comparison with the old 32-bit plugin to check if there is a sound difference. Will try to do that ASAP.
Aynway i am currently using Windows and maybe it is different there.

Would interesting to know if other OSX users did notice a difference too. So far nobody reported this here or in the beta forum.
Theroretically it would be also possible that there is a bug somewhere that makes patches sound differently.

UPDATE:
Just started some tests with my own commercial bank. I created a project where i could play both the old 32-bit VST2 plugin (v1.03) and the new 64-bit VST2 plugin. So far i did not notice a difference but i will try to check this further.


Ingo

Hi Ingonator and PPG Wave 3.V users out there. I'd like to say that I'm extremely happy for solving this problem.(Imperfect compatibility between old and new RC1 version)

My answer is YOU MUST SAVE THE PROGRAM AS THE .FXB FILE NOT .FXP FILE.
It is called "SAVE BANK".

If you've created a lot of presets from old ppg wave 3v, simply you load them all into the ppg's internal browser(up to 127 programs) and use the context menu "Save Bank". Also use this method although you gonna save just one program!

Below I linked my mp3 audio and fxp & fxb files together. Please download it if you want to experience some problem between old and new version.

http://utput.net/ppgwave_3v_kvr.zip

I recorded three examples (consisted of simply two tracks = PPG Wave 3.V & Logic's Ultrabeat Drum)

1. Sound of the previous version of PPG Wave 3.V (v1.0.2)
2. Sound of the new 1.0.3 RC1 loading previous version's fxp file.
3. Sound of the new 1.0.3 RC1 loading previous version's fxb file.

You will notice that 1 and 3 sound same. But 1 and 2 are not. Track 2 sounds more muddy.
For some reason the new RC1 translates differently when loading a previous version files as .fxp file. There was no compatibility problem when loading a bank files.


Sorry for my english, I hope the new bug free updater come soon. Thanks. Love Waldorf.



Amundsen_Scott from Vladivostok

[Ingonator]

1.SAME PATCH, DIFFERENT SOUNDS : All programs I made on the older version sounded
a little bit different on the RC1. But small thing brings a big different feeling and character. When loading my patch, the sound of the filter cutoff is more murky(muddy?) on the new version. And ADSR envelopes sound slight different. Maybe the developers changed its source codes? It makes me sad. Because I have made hundreds of programs since 2011.

If I want to move to Logic X, I must buy another 3rd party's bit bridge application(32Lives e.g.) to keep the old version. What an irony! All I can say is that version 1.02 and new 1.03 are two different instruments.

Hi,

AFAIK there was no change in teh sound engine, at least it was not intended. I would have to do a direct comparison with the old 32-bit plugin to check if there is a sound difference. Will try to do that ASAP.
Aynway i am currently using Windows and maybe it is different there.

Would interesting to know if other OSX users did notice a difference too. So far nobody reported this here or in the beta forum.
Theroretically it would be also possible that there is a bug somewhere that makes patches sound differently.

UPDATE:
Just started some tests with my own commercial bank. I created a project where i could play both the old 32-bit VST2 plugin (v1.03) and the new 64-bit VST2 plugin. So far i did not notice a difference but i will try to check this further.


Ingo

Hi Ingonator and PPG Wave 3.V users out there. I'd like to say that I'm extremely happy for solving this problem.(Imperfect compatibility between old and new RC1 version)

My answer is YOU MUST SAVE THE PROGRAM AS THE .FXB FILE NOT .FXP FILE.
It is called "SAVE BANK".

If you've created a lot of presets from old ppg wave 3v, simply you load them all into the ppg's internal browser(up to 127 programs) and use the context menu "Save Bank". Also use this method although you gonna save just one program!

Below I linked my mp3 audio and fxp & fxb files together. Please download it if you want to experience some problem between old and new version.

http://utput.net/ppgwave_3v_kvr.zip

I recorded three examples (consisted of simply two tracks = PPG Wave 3.V & Logic's Ultrabeat Drum)

1. Sound of the previous version of PPG Wave 3.V (v1.0.2)
2. Sound of the new 1.0.3 RC1 loading previous version's fxp file.
3. Sound of the new 1.0.3 RC1 loading previous version's fxb file.

You will notice that 1 and 3 sound same. But 1 and 2 are not. Track 2 sounds more muddy.
For some reason the new RC1 translates differently when loading a previous version files as .fxp file. There was no problem when loading a bank files.


Sorry for my english, I hope the new bug free updater come soon. Thanks. Love Waldorf.



Amundsen_Scott from Vladivostok

Hi,

I know how to use PPG Wave 3.V. I was one of the original (first version) beta testers and factory sound designers and also got a commercial bank for it.

Based on tests with my own patches i did not notice a difference so far. I used one project with the old 32-bit plugin (v1.02) and the new 64-bit plugin (v1.03) and use an own keyboard controller for each to compare them directly.

Maybe it is a Mac issue which i could not test myself. I'll try to ask our testers if that seems to be the case.
Anyway i will try to check your patches in my setup (on Windows). MP3s do not help much if i or the testers are not able to replicate this with your or with other patches.

You could be sure that IF there is a change in the sound engine it was not intended with the current update.
Conversion to 64-bit is difficult and many unwanted things could (and already had) happen there.


UPDATE:
Just tried i direct compariosn of you patch (fxb file) in v1.02 (32-bit) and v1.03 (64-bit). Hard to tell a difference between those.
Anyway what i noticed is that you set the patch to DUAL mode which correspond to a 2 voice Unison while in the GLOBAL menu you only set 8 voices. This means that currently with the DUAL mode you have a polyphony of only 4 and you could easily experience "voice stealing". It is possible to increase voices up to 256 and in your case i would at least use 16 or 32 voices.
For using multiple parts with a single instance having a bigger amount of voices would be essential.


It would be nice if you could find some of the factory presets that show a comparable problem at your system and just tell the names of the patches so i could check them.

It would be very unlikely that we change/correct anything at the soundengine as long as we are not sure that there is really an issue and where it is exactly.


Ingo

[amundsen_scott]

UPDATE:
Just tried i direct compariosn of you patch (fxb file) in v1.02 (32-bit) and v1.03 (64-bit). Hard to tell a difference between those.
Anyway what i noticed is that you set the patch to DUAL mode which correspond to a 2 voice Unison while in the GLOBAL menu you only set 8 voices. This means that currently with the DUAL mode you have a polyphony of only 4 and you could easily experience "voice stealing". It is possible to increase voices up to 256 and in your case i would at least use 16 or 32 voices.
For using multiple parts with a single instance having a bigger amount of voices would be essential.


It would be nice if you could find some of the factory presets that show a comparable problem at your system and just tell the names of the patches so i could check them.

It would be very unlikely that we change/correct anything at the soundengine as long as we are not sure that there is really an issue and where it is exactly.


Ingo

Many thanks to you for listening my thoughts.

I agree with you that there is no changes in the sound engine itself. Because I have found the way of using previous patches without timber changes by loading them as .fxb bank file.

I can give you a lot of evidences about single fxp mistranslations between two versions. But I realized that it is no error of sound engine. If you heard no difference under the Windows PC with my ppg patch uploaded, I think it is only happening on the OSX system. I have tested both on the Logic Pro's AU and Ableton Live's VST/AU.

I prefer to program voices as 4-voice instruments just like Roland Jupiter-4 and Korg MonoPoly. The sound of Voice stealing is one of my great amusement when I'm into synthesizers. PPG's DUAL mode and global 8 voices I programmed specially. I'd like to say that voice stealing has nothing to do with the problem I've mentioned before.

Anyway I will try to test the factory presets as well. Once again thank you for the fast reply and
considerations. Have a nice day!

[Ingonator]

I just started doing patches with PPG Wave 2.V (using the 64-bit VST 2 plugin).

There are several reasons for doing taht and one is that it should be could for finding additional bugs.


Ingo

[Ingonator]

Can anyone clarify what the OSX/Mac timing prob fix should have fixed in RC2? It was mentioned in changelog posted in Facebook, but not here. Atleast it didn't catch my eye.

Now that the gui seems to work well and no crashes, the arp sync is the only bug affecting my use.

PM sent.

I received a procedure by email (for Studio One) and my first test was with the VST2 and VST3 in Cubase 7.5.20 64-bit on Windows 7 64-bit. Could not notice a problem there.
Now did an identical test with Studio One 2.6.2 64-bit and i notice a problem there using the same plugins.

I would have to test if it also happens with the VST2 plugin in other hosts like e.g. Live 9 and Reaper.


UPDATE:
Could not confirm with the VST2 plugin in Live 9 64-bit. So far this only seems to happen with Studio One here.
Not 100% sure in Reaper 4.7 64-bit. It is possible there is a small problem there but less obvious than in Studio One.

This is the procedure i reiceived to replicate the bug:

Hi, considering the timing bug in Largo Mac. Studio One v2.6.2

The sync problem is quite easy to reproduce:
- init patch (i used VST3)
- turn arp on
- play a chord sequence in loop
- first loop it goes out of sync

It's easy to notice if you put a delay effect with a decent feedback at the same rate as the arp. You notice many times that the arp is out of sync.

Ingo

[Everglide]

Hey Ingo,

6 modulation parameters are missing from the Mod Matrix in Largo;

1. Pan Level (Filter 1)
2. Pan Level (Filter 2)
3. Envelope Amount (Filter 1)
4. Envelope Velocity (Filter 1)
5. Envelope Amount (Filter 2)
6. Envelope Velocity (Filter 2)

Pan Levels aren't essentials but the Envelope Amount & Envelope Velocity would greatly enhance Largo.

[Ingonator]

We got a few bugs for different pproducts like Largo, PPG 3.V and Waldor fEdition that only happen in certain hosts/DAWs and/or certain combinations of certain plugin formats in certain hosts (e.g. only with the VST3 in Cubase and the VST2 in Live 9 while the VST2 and/or VST3 plugins work properly in other hosts). Such bugs are not easy to solve as they work properly in other hosts using exactly the same plugin file.

Some people maybe still think that certain bugs should be easy to fix which is not always the case.


Ingo

[Everglide]

Can anyone clarify what the OSX/Mac timing prob fix should have fixed in RC2? It was mentioned in changelog posted in Facebook, but not here. Atleast it didn't catch my eye.

Now that the gui seems to work well and no crashes, the arp sync is the only bug affecting my use.

PM sent.

Ingo, I can confirm that the Arp falls out of sync using Studio One v2.3 & v2.6, this doesn't happen in the 32bit version of Largo on the Mac.

The GUI isn't completely bug free either in RC2, try moving any slider using the mouse wheel and you will notice it jumps about. The sliders in the 32 version are absolutely smooth, you can move these with the mouse wheel for very precise control.

The graphics for the ADSL aren't visually smooth either. I have mentioned this in previous posts and have uploaded an image to illustrate the point: antialiasing is a software technique for diminishing jaggies - stairstep-like lines that should be smooth. If you need me to repost the image then please ask.

I understand you are working very hard and I appreciate your efforts, regular updates, etc. Thank you!

[Ingonator]

Several people asked for it and besides some other bug fixes the current Beta versions of the Waldorf Edition plugins contain a linear behavior of the knobs now.


Ingo

[EvilDragon]

Woohoo!

[raymondwave]

YES! Thank you, going to install them right away.

I like this new wave at Waldorf.

Edit. Ah, it was not a public beta I assume.

[Ingonator]

Edit. Ah, it was not a public beta I assume.

Not yet. If there is a new release candidate i will mention it here.