Request - please make nki's backwards-compatible

[dnekm]

Like I said, it is just a different approach. I like to think this keeps the ability to make Anomaly a little unique for each person. They can always adjust the presets on their own and save them, having a different sound.

Then again, I do not do anything the normal or easy way....

[whyterabbyt]

And it also doesn't allow you to downgrade btw: years back a family member bought a HP laptop with Windows Vista on. I preffered Windows XP and since the unit was still in warranty I took it to the local HP dealer and asked them to install it on the laptop - of course, willing to pay for the licence. Surprise: they told me they can't do it because Microsoft doesn't allow them to install older versions of their software (Vista was the latest version back then).

Whoever you spoke to at the HP dealership was incorrect or lying. Microsoft do support downgrades.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en-gb/lice ... IEfDVa10m3
There are (some) alternatives to Kontakt, but nothing close to it. There's a reason why it's so popular nowadays. And until someone else manages to come up with a better option (plugin), they won't probably change their compatibility policy...

[Sampleconstruct]

They can always adjust the presets on their own and save them, having a different sound.

Well, that counts for any library by any dev if the user knows a little bit what he's doing.

[idfpower]

Whoever you spoke to at the HP dealership was incorrect or lying. Microsoft do support downgrades.

That's what I thought at first, but then I went to 3 different computer stores that were selling windows licenses and everytime I got the same answer: they were not allowed to sell XP anymore, only Vista. Maybe they've decided to come to their senses later on, but that was the situation back then. I don't know, maybe they've managed to cut some sort of a deal to enforce Vista, who knows what was decided behind close doors (it's really cheap & easy to do these kind of things around these parts so I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case).

[kpr]

I can only say that you're missing out on a lot of great filters if you're not doing a Kontakt 5 library...

The sound matters. If it can't be done with an older version of Kontakt, why should developer use it then? It's just common sense - use the features you need for the version that offers that. Case closed, pretty much.

even with a different GUI per product. I am not. Learning each product is bs, one sample player GUI is enough to explore all the trillions of features. If an extra GUI seems to be necessary it means, that the general purpose GUI of the player is not planned very well.

You cannot be more wrong. So a vintage synth Kontakt library and a string orchestra library should have the same GUI? That's preposterous.

Different pair of shoes.

You should understand that upgrading products is a marketing scheme. And it's a general issue more and more musicians don't like and someday they simply say: "Stop it." They're right.

GUI: Making a GUI is a hard job, and I know that you're doing that. They look good too. But it always pushes a musician to learn a new GUI. Your comparison Vintage Synth vs. String Orchestra is wrong. They were built years ago and were instruments of their own. To create a decent GUI for a sampleplayer is a completely different job, as the sampleplayer loads everything. The original Kontakt GUI isn't bad at all, but lacks a lot of things and you are one who try to make it individual for specific instruments. This is one method. Another is to make the GUI really musician-friendly, and this means: Don't distract him from making music.

Back to Vintage Synths vs. String Orchestra: If you translate all the parameter names to the musical function you'll find out how similar they are. Cutoff? BS. It makes the sound more brilliant and dull. Attack Time? BS. It's the tone response, which is fast or slow. Forget all those fancy marketing newspeak and be a human.

Learn to talk as a musician and not an engineer.

[EvilDragon]

The original Kontakt GUI isn't bad at all, but lacks a lot of things and you are one who try to make it individual for specific instruments. This is one method. Another is to make the GUI really musician-friendly, and this means: Don't distract him from making music.

This is the point of scripted GUIs - focusing on the important parts of the instrument, and subtracting what's not necessary, but definitely overpowers everyone that's not a Kontakt power-user when they enter the instrument edit mode. IMHO this is really great because it offers a lot of flexibility for the developer, but ultimatively ease of use for the end user... which is the whole point of what Kontakt is about.

Learn to talk as a musician and not an engineer.

Well, I'm a musician and also a computer programmer/engineer, so you will always get both from me.

[whyterabbyt]

You should understand that upgrading products is a marketing scheme.

Are you really trying to imply that some people dont know that a companies which exists to sell products often makes newer, more advanced versions of those products to sell?

But that's not marketing. Its developing new versions of products.
Marketing is attracting you to buy the new version. If you dont want to though, noone can make you.

But its none of your business if the company wants to, or people want to buy it. You dont get to limit my tools because of your luddism.

And it's a general issue more and more musicians don't like and someday they simply say: "Stop it."

Some might. Some might not.

They're right.

No, they're not.

GUI: Making a GUI is a hard job, and I know that you're doing that. They look good too. But it always pushes a musician to learn a new GUI.

Oh, gods, no, really? How terrible.

Learn to talk as a musician and not an engineer.

Any musician knows that picking up a new instrument means learning how to use it. Different technique, different skills, different playing style. It doesnt take any effort to work out that a sample set should reflect the instrument, not some cack-handed resistance to learning stuff.
Learn to talk as a musician, not a luddite.

[kpr]

The original Kontakt GUI isn't bad at all, but lacks a lot of things and you are one who try to make it individual for specific instruments. This is one method. Another is to make the GUI really musician-friendly, and this means: Don't distract him from making music.

This is the point of scripted GUIs - focusing on the important parts of the instrument, and subtracting what's not necessary, but definitely overpowers everyone that's not a Kontakt power-user when they enter the instrument edit mode. IMHO this is really great because it offers a lot of flexibility for the developer, but ultimatively ease of use for the end user... which is the whole point of what Kontakt is about.

Learn to talk as a musician and not an engineer.

Well, I'm a musician and also a computer programmer/engineer, so you will always get both from me.

What you do is nice, it's kind of Easy Edit GUI. And the Kontakt script feature allows it, what again is nice. If it's overdone it will be a new instrument for the musician.

Back to topic it's about compatibility, and at this point the customer/musician is the one who makes a decision. Realize that many musicians never post in forums or talk with manufacturers. They simply don't buy the upgrade, and even worse: They stop having a good relationship to the manufacturer and look for someone else who is reliable and keeps good things as they are.

[whyterabbyt]

at this point the customer/musician is the one who makes a decision. Realize that many musicians never post in forums or talk with manufactureres. They simply don't buy the upgrade, and even worse: They stop having a good relationship to the manufacturer and look for someone else who is reliable and keeps good things as they are.

I have no belief whatsoever that what you are saying has any truth; you're basically claiming to know the behaviour of a specific group of people whose behaviour on the matter cannot be known, and then extrapolating support for your argument from what you claim that is.

[Gamma-UT]

Attack Time? BS. It's the tone response, which is fast or slow. Forget all those fancy marketing newspeak and be a human.

wat?

Can you let us know where the "Tone response: fast or slow" knob is on your Moog? Because I don't think I've seen that one. Is it the Moog Bogus by any chance?

[whyterabbyt]

Attack Time? BS. It's the tone response, which is fast or slow. Forget all those fancy marketing newspeak and be a human.

wat?

Can you let us know where the "Tone response: fast or slow" knob is on your Moog? Because I don't think I've seen that one. Is it the Moog Bogus by any chance?

Or a violin.

But a violinist, for example, would understand what was meant when the attack of a note was discussed.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=c0Ht ... ng&f=false

Never heard anyone say 'he played his violin with a lot of fast tone response'.

[kpr]

Attack Time? BS. It's the tone response, which is fast or slow. Forget all those fancy marketing newspeak and be a human.

wat?

Can you let us know where the "Tone response: fast or slow" knob is on your Moog? Because I don't think I've seen that one. Is it the Moog Bogus by any chance?

Although it's still OT:

Yamaha is always trying to find the best words for this. Examples: Tone Initial and Tone After, as well as Brilliance.

Moog is a bad example, my Minimoog lists the technical terms which were used also for the bigger ones back then, that's all.

Back to topic: It's about compatibility. And that a lot of musicians are tired about upgrades and missing downward compatibility. Of course there are nerdy instrument owners who like every 0.001 steps OS updates each week, upgrades, downloading sounds until the TB sized HD explodes. But this is not the thread topic.

[whyterabbyt]

Back to topic: It's about compatibility. And that a lot of musicians are tired about upgrades and missing downward compatibility. .

No, its not a lot, its only a tiny number of people, all of whom have webbed feet.

(See, anyone can make unsupported claims too.)

[Sampleconstruct]

@kpr, I think "you're hanging yourself very far out of the window", as we say, you do things special, you think of the musician, you develop stuff for ancient software instruments, ok, fine, but please don't overestimate your specialness so much, it does hurt a bit.

[kpr]

Well, why this personal critics? Typical troll attitude btw and discussion killer too.

First: You don't know me. Second: Why OT?

I don't believe you that I hurt you. If you don't like my posting, then skip to something else.

In fact I am even not taking about me. It's about the topic "Request - please make nki's backwards-compatible", and this means downward compatibility vs. pushing to upgraded Kontakt.

I develop stuff for ancient software instruments? How ignorant is that. It's about making soundtools convenient for musicians.

And this means it's about conversion data. There are some very talented guys who are experienced in conversion processing. Downward compatibility might be not fancy, but it's worth to consider.

If you don't understand it and if you ignore the thread starters struggling, it's your problem, not mine.