Logic, it had to happen one day I guess

[CTStump]

I did say go on didn't I?

It was meant as a personal observation not as a censorship issue, I expect it wont be taken that way.

[Robmobius]

Ironically, I'd see you as the detractor in this thread...

Didn't say it was censorship issue - Just a snarky 'off hand' comment for no good reason imo.

[spaceman]

This thread doesn't have much value I guess. It might represent a suggestion for people who are thinking of moving away from Logic. Or not. It's all personal preferences, and these preferences can change.. and the environment can change. Turning my back on Logic almost feels like betrayal, that's how long I've been committed to it. But S1 just ticks a lot more important boxes for me now.

I definitely do not want to present this as an objective evaluation of Logic or Studio One. It's just subjective mumblings

[topaz]

I'm with you, can't stand logic now. I tried logic x and it did my head in.

Although it is said that logic is a powerful midi host I can do so much more in live.

Using drum racks for drum maps and articulation maps, having names and descriptions on notes, being able to jam out arrangements on the fly...

Just a few reasons I am glad I switched.

[Robmobius]

I definitely do not want to present this as an objective evaluation of Logic or Studio One. It's just subjective mumblings

This is it mate... DAWs are all about personal preference. Because S1 is better for me, doesn't mean that Logic or anything else is crap. Or that S1 is the best..

If someone is on Logic, and loving it then remember the old saying, 'if it 'aint broke...'

[ObsoleteAcc99]

I keep also Sonar as a third one mainly because it doesn't have a PDC problem (I think ), so rewiring Live and Reason into it, would solve the PDC problem ( I read it is the ReWire Master responsibility to handle the latency, not the slave).

If I were with a Mac, I would keep Logic (instead of Sonar), but stay the same with Reason and Live as my main music tools

Just wanted to clarify something for you.. As long as you are using vst plugins in sonar on the rewire stems, then there will of course be no pdc problems. But it's not going to help you within pdc issues within reason or live itself, say you use factory effects in live that have latency and want to automate them, sonar can't do anything about keeping that in time, or if you use RE with latency in reason.. Again.. The only thing sonar will do is keep everything in sync if you are only using the rewire slaves as a sound source and are doing ALL your mixing in sonar (or using plugins in the rewire slave with zero latency only)

[Tronam]

I still run Logic 9 and depend on it for soundtrack work and notation scoring. I think it's a great piece of software, but I've never really thought of it as a "fun" program to use. If Reason had video file import and Kontakt library support I'd probably switch to that full time.

[EnGee]

I keep also Sonar as a third one mainly because it doesn't have a PDC problem (I think ), so rewiring Live and Reason into it, would solve the PDC problem ( I read it is the ReWire Master responsibility to handle the latency, not the slave).

If I were with a Mac, I would keep Logic (instead of Sonar), but stay the same with Reason and Live as my main music tools

Just wanted to clarify something for you.. As long as you are using vst plugins in sonar on the rewire stems, then there will of course be no pdc problems. But it's not going to help you within pdc issues within reason or live itself, say you use factory effects in live that have latency and want to automate them, sonar can't do anything about keeping that in time, or if you use RE with latency in reason.. Again.. The only thing sonar will do is keep everything in sync if you are only using the rewire slaves as a sound source and are doing ALL your mixing in sonar (or using plugins in the rewire slave with zero latency only)

Thanks Theo,

I re-read the section in Reason's manual and it seems I misunderstood. You are right, Sonar (or the ReWire Master) doesn't compensates for the latency of the slave. I also found this explanation (about Renoise rewire latency):
http://forum.renoise.com/index.php?/top ... ire-slave/

This PDC thing is like an evil ghost hunting me! I wish there is a thread containing a list of all the plug-ins (all kinds) that introduce Latency, so people who use Live (or Reason for example) can avoid using these plugins or at least be aware of them especially when using automation! Anyway, I will pay more attention to this complex issue.
Sorry, off topic!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Engee there is a topic going now at the PUF where they are listing the plugins with latency.

There is also an excellent VERY cheap RE available called vmg01 which is very easy to use and can get everything in sync for you in reason. It also uses basically no cpu, I loaded like 50 of them and the dsp bar didn't go up from one.

Remember in ableton that only automation isn't compensated, the actual plugins are. But if you rewire ableton you can't use vst anyway, you can only use factory effects, and none of those have a big enough latency to be of a concern honestly. The pdc in ableton is good enough to cover factory plugins.

Also don't forget that both live and reason are going to be rewired onto sonar on one core, as is the nature of rewire so it's not like you could do full mixes with them anyway unless you do a lot of the work in sonar. This is a biggie that many forget then wonder where their computer power is gone.


So my advice is this honestly... As sonar has excellent bounce capability with rewire even offline, you can freeze in place into audio.

I'd use reason factory devices and live factory devices to do my beats or sounds that I need, and all audio tracks and further virtual instruments in sonar to spread the load. Bounce the rewire to audio stems when you are finished with those and work entirely in sonar to mix down. Just my 2c hope that helps.

[Klinke]

This PDC thing is like an evil ghost hunting me! I wish there is a thread containing a list of all the plug-ins (all kinds) that introduce Latency, so people who use Live (or Reason for example) can avoid using these plugins or at least be aware of them especially when using automation! Anyway, I will pay more attention to this complex issue.
Sorry, off topic!

You could download Reaper to check the latency of a plugin, it's show in the Reaper fx window.

[EnGee]

Engee there is a topic going now at the PUF where they are listing the plugins with latency.

There is also an excellent VERY cheap RE available called vmg01 which is very easy to use and can get everything in sync for you in reason. It also uses basically no cpu, I loaded like 50 of them and the dsp bar didn't go up from one.

Remember in ableton that only automation isn't compensated, the actual plugins are. But if you rewire ableton you can't use vst anyway, you can only use factory effects, and none of those have a big enough latency to be of a concern honestly. The pdc in ableton is good enough to cover factory plugins.

Also don't forget that both live and reason are going to be rewired onto sonar on one core, as is the nature of rewire so it's not like you could do full mixes with them anyway unless you do a lot of the work in sonar. This is a biggie that many forget then wonder where their computer power is gone.


So my advice is this honestly... As sonar has excellent bounce capability with rewire even offline, you can freeze in place into audio.

I'd use reason factory devices and live factory devices to do my beats or sounds that I need, and all audio tracks and further virtual instruments in sonar to spread the load. Bounce the rewire to audio stems when you are finished with those and work entirely in sonar to mix down. Just my 2c hope that helps.

Thanks a lot Theo Sure it helps me a lot. VMG-01? Sure I will buy it very soon. I will check it tomorrow.

I'm considering your suggested workflow as it is a very good one. But sometimes I just feel tired with all this setup and complexity and the fact that I realised I can make the music I want by just using Live intro! I really love the integration with my Oxygen 49 controls and it is amazingly productive. The simplicity of just 8 controls in the instrument/drum rack is so great which makes me concentrate on few elements and having very quick and nice results!

You could download Reaper to check the latency of a plugin, it's show in the Reaper fx window.

Yes, thank you. I use this way sometimes to see which plugin I have has a latency. Guitar Rig 4 has a latency, but I think most of the amp plugins are as well.

[fitch]

I empathise with you Spaceman .. am right with you.



I use Reaper more and more, and have jumped over to the ProTools bandwagon too.





That dark look of logic X was to painful to work with ... I have even tried the new skins available too.


I can't put my finger on it, but the inspiration is definitely not the same.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

i think the GUI is what has hampered the inspiration and with that I do agree.. even with skins there is something different "feeling" about it. It's like it blocks creativity and is a bit confusing. Launching Logic 9 every time after X is a breath of fresh air, it just makes me want to compose. I know it's all psychological but almost a year down the track and i am still not used to the look of X

[aMUSEd]

I empathise with you Spaceman .. am right with you.



I use Reaper more and more, and have jumped over to the ProTools bandwagon too.





That dark look of logic X was to painful to work with ... I have even tried the new skins available too.


I can't put my finger on it, but the inspiration is definitely not the same.

fitch!!

[spaceman]

i think the GUI is what has hampered the inspiration and with that I do agree.. even with skins there is something different "feeling" about it. It's like it blocks creativity and is a bit confusing. Launching Logic 9 every time after X is a breath of fresh air, it just makes me want to compose. I know it's all psychological but almost a year down the track and i am still not used to the look of X

Personally, I don't mind the new UI. I quite like black.
It's the unresponsiveness and slowness that accompanied the UI that I have an issue with.

Apparently it's an issue even for people with top-end machines, so not just limited to machines with onboard graphics or slower CPUs. I'm sure it's actually Mavericks that the culprit.

I'm also sure that I have an urge for greener grass.