Well, another iLok drama unfolding

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masterhiggins wrote:
Ben H wrote:EDIT: If there's anyone you should be pissed at, it is the opportunistic people who sold/transferred you the dodgy licenses in the first place.
They should also be pissed off at PACE, whose sh*tty-ass faulty servers spit out extra licenses in the f**king first place, those incompetent bastards.

-Sam
It's technology... ofc it can go wrong.

Just like an atm can ocassionally spit out too much money or a vending machine giving you the wrong (or no) change. :shrug:

The people who got the extra licenses KNEW that they weren't entitled to them. I GUARANTEE it. ;)
Last edited by Ben H on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
My main tools: Kontakt, Omnisphere, Samplemodeling + Audio Modeling. Akai VIP = godsend. Tari's libraries also rock.

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Image
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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I don't know what happened to my post, but I'll try again: someone asked what the difference is between dongle failure and hardware tool/instrument failure. The difference is that the dongle has NO USE to the legitimate user for anything at all. It's a waste of resources, like computer resources, time, and money. It's a system present for the peace of mind of the seller only. It's a tool for punishing legit owners, not a tool for music work. That's the difference.
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my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS wrote:It's a tool for punishing legit owners, not a tool for music work. That's the difference.
Yeah, and house keys and car keys are a punishment too. Because people are all honest and don't take stuff that doesn't belong to them. :roll:
My main tools: Kontakt, Omnisphere, Samplemodeling + Audio Modeling. Akai VIP = godsend. Tari's libraries also rock.

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Skimmed through the thread, but all these "big" companies, just cut the middle man out, iLok is a hassle really, and the only reason I'm not using Pro Tools right now (if they got rid of iLok I'd buy into Pro Tools). What purpose does iLok serve? Okay you can use a product on several computers by just plugging in the USB, but I am more in favor of what Image-Line does, a reg key that you install and never have to worry about again, you could have FL4 installed and update to FL12 without any hassle. Just like the music industry should know, cut the middle man out. iLok is non essential in making music, but are forced to get it because we need the access to the music software. People will always find access to the software, and it can't be stopped, but why add a security layer to the customers whom actually want to buy the product?

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Ben H wrote:Just like an atm can ocassionally spit out too much money or a vending machine giving you the wrong (or no) change. :shrug:
Banks generally catch mistakes like this within 48 hours and there are always cameras tracking each and every transaction. PACE is revoking authorizations years after they were purchased in good faith from a buyer with absolutely no recourse. Paypal only files claims in 45 days. Most credit cards only allow you to dispute transactions within 6 months (usually less). Not even close to the same thing. If anything they should be suspending accounts for the users that sold/transferred the extra licenses, not the people they were sold to.

-Sam

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Ben H wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:It's a tool for punishing legit owners, not a tool for music work. That's the difference.
Yeah, and house keys and car keys are a punishment too. Because people are all honest and don't take stuff that doesn't belong to them. :roll:
I think it is a bit false analogy is it not? :roll:
iLok is more like putting all the expenses and responsibilities on my neighbor for protecting my house and property.

I think you failed to see the problem in the first place. Every iLok license transfer goes through PACE. They take money on every transfer and as such every license on their system has their seal of approval. There is absolutely no way to know if a license is duplicate or if something is wrong with it when you buy it. Now if PACE screwed up and their servers generated duplicate licenses or whatever it is solely on the fault of PACE and they just should take the losses and be smarter the next time. But PACE not only started to delete licenses for people who have bought second hand stuff in good faith and completely legitimately but also completely legitimate licenses for people who had bought them directly from Avid, Waves, Softube and so on. Moreover they said that don't bother contacting us as we do not give a F if you spent your money.

It just shows how dangerous could copy protection be for paying customers if it completely takes the control out of users hands.
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robotmonkey wrote:
I think you failed to see the problem in the first place. Every iLok license transfer goes through PACE. They take money on every transfer and as such every license on their system has their seal of approval.
Precisely. Which is why i am totally shocked to see usual KVR philosophers defending this whole approach.
robotmonkey wrote:Now if PACE screwed up and their servers generated duplicate licenses or whatever it is solely on the fault of PACE and they just should take the losses and be smarter the next time. But PACE not only started to delete licenses for people who have bought second hand stuff in good faith and completely legitimately but also completely legitimate licenses for people who had bought them directly from Avid, Waves, Softube and so on. Moreover they said that don't bother contacting us as we do not give a F if you spent your money.
Yup..totally disgusting. Even so...let's say that user bought "stolen"(whatever that does mean) license from person which somehow by some miracle or glitch from Pace server managed to generated duplicated license /but according to PACE this is all user fault..wow)..Someone - seller or buyer DID HAD TO PAY for transfer because there is no possible way to do it otherwise - therefore someone at PACE was aware of transfer. But shall we continue...if person bought shady license (with or without knowing it - but likely without knowing it) - why does pace delete their license and not the duplicates from seller. They should just delete seller duplicated license and everything is fine. Seller should not have it anyway. But no - they are deleting licenses even from people which bought it. Why? A singe license is a license. If it went to other person and previous user agreed to transfer it, why deleting it from person which bought it? I mean why totally swiping license for which someone paid for sometimes? Isn't that law abiding ? I bet that somewhere in EULA they pulled this so it is doable for them..

Anyway - avoid them. Sadly i do have some plugs on ilok but after this and previous ilokalypse drama - AVOID


edit: after reading whole thread and reports from users using ilok and having licenses disappearing after 8-15 years of use (which where ordered directly from dealer not a second hand) i have to think that either someone has found a way to steal licenses through the ilok system itself, or a major bug in the system is literally stealing/damaging user licenses.

Btw ilok responded in that thread admitting it's their own (server) error. Explanation for error is rather bizarre and likely not true. However they are torturing paid users even after they admitted it's their error...wow..
Last edited by kmonkey on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

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I'm not a complete fan of dongles as I make music out and about a lot and I'm always worried about losing or breaking my dongles but you don't see cracked versions of Pro Tools, Machfive, Halion, Cubase, Uvi instruments, Reason etc except for really old versions so in that respect I guess it works. I like how with Reason if I can either use the dongle or log in online when I'm on a different machine out and about and my studio comp is the registered offline machine. The big downside of dongles though is when things go wrong they tend to be permanent and expensive.

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tonkatodd wrote:I'm not a complete fan of dongles as I make music out and about a lot and I'm always worried about losing or breaking my dongles but you don't see cracked versions of Pro Tools, Machfive, Halion, Cubase, Uvi instruments, Reason etc except for really old versions so in that respect I guess it works. I like how with Reason if I can either use the dongle or log in online when I'm on a different machine out and about and my studio comp is the registered offline machine. The big downside of dongles though is when things go wrong they tend to be permanent and expensive.
If you google torrents you can find working versions of pro tools 10, Mach 5 2, and reason 7.

-Sam

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Pro Tools 10 is an old version and from what I know doesn't work correctly and I suspect an Ilok1 crack and not ilok2 as the same with Machfive 2 which is 4 years old. I don't think Reason 7 has been cracked. I believe the last cracked version was 5 which was many years ago. It would be cool to have a protection method that was less inconvenient than a dongle but at the moment it works the best for protecting developers products. We the user just lose out.

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Regardless of the arguments, two major iLok dramas in the space of 12 months. Would hate to work in their PR department.
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I don't think that dongle protection (or at least the iLok) will have a long future anymore.
I can't think of many new developers that use iLok as protection, but of a lot that dropped the whole thing.

Devs mainly choose iLok as a protection method for two reasons:

The obvious one:
It seems to be rather safe (I have no idea about warez etc, so that's just an educated guess).

The not so obvious one:
People hate iLoks, but they associate it with high quality software and are willing to pay for it.
Software protected by dongles is often rather expensive, much more expensive than similar software without dongle protection.
Why? People somehow think that software protected by such an intrusive protection has to be something special.

I wouldn't be surprised if the second reason would be the main reason for many devs to choose an iLok as protection.

Cheers
Dennis

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tonkatodd wrote:Ilok support replied to the thread over at the Avid forums.

"...
Several of the posters here had purchased this type of license from another iLok user. Unfortunately we can only direct them back to the party that they purchased the duplicate license from.

..."

So they apologized, they are working on the issue, and they say "if there is an issue - get in touch with the one you purchased from" and/or indirectly "get in touch with the company you registered your plugin to.


What I say right from the start. So there is no need to critisize iLok.

If there were transfer fees involved, then this is all easily trackable. Even if not, most companies are accommodating enough to get this sorted out.



I still fail to see the problem other than "whoops - server glitch, you lost licenses from like 1 year back - we can't help you, get in touch with the dev to sort this out".

That's no defense for iLok - that's how it always was.
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Oops. Server glitch! Better forget about working on that important client project today.

Oh well!

The sun will come up tomorrow on another cheery day ;)
... space is the place ...

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