thing is i could play your tune, today. i could chart it up as sheet music in an hour or less.
in fact, here: anyone who voted me a 5 can get free real trumpet, tenor sax, or windsynth overdubbed on any tune they want!
One-Synth-Challenge 61: OBXD - Submissions, Chat, Voting and Results
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- KVRian
- 1479 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 4534 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
I'll make a suggestion which will be accepted by probably absolutely nobody here. But it would be the only way to avoid tactical votes, DQ's, complaints, etc.
It is:
- NO VOTE allowed from the competitors!
BUT:
- A public announcement of a vote ! An annoucement sent to ALL the KVR members among the news of the week !
And a vote open not for just 15 days but for the whole month.
Yes! That, really, it would be the only way to avoid absolutely all the problems and all the complaints !
And you can be sure that the results would be very, very different!!! Because these votes would be the exact reflect of the styles of music appreciated by ALL the KVR members ! Not the reflect of just a little number of always the same persons, so necessarily a subtle way to maintain for the eternity the same style which is the popularity of a close group. As the rules are made presently, they are made to create music in the only purpose to get the prizes among a very little number of competitors... which are already known because at 75 or 80% always the same persons... so necessarily tunes composed regarding the tastes only of these same regular members.
The only real way to follow in order to get an exact reflect of a competition is to not allow the competitors to vote, but publicly announce in the news that the vote for OSC is open for everybody!
It needs promotions, it is obvious... but it is the only real way to get the real reflect of a large population!
Everybody has to win in such a real democratic method! Because not only it avoids all tactical votes, all complaints, etc... but also it would be the exact reflect of the variety of tastes of all the KVR members... and also it would bring many new people, many other KVR members to the competition ! (And with a real much larger variety of styles!)
But I know that it will be a heresy for all those who don't want to see the things really get better in the sense of a real monthly sounding of the tastes of not only a little group but of all the population.
It is:
- NO VOTE allowed from the competitors!
BUT:
- A public announcement of a vote ! An annoucement sent to ALL the KVR members among the news of the week !
And a vote open not for just 15 days but for the whole month.
Yes! That, really, it would be the only way to avoid absolutely all the problems and all the complaints !
And you can be sure that the results would be very, very different!!! Because these votes would be the exact reflect of the styles of music appreciated by ALL the KVR members ! Not the reflect of just a little number of always the same persons, so necessarily a subtle way to maintain for the eternity the same style which is the popularity of a close group. As the rules are made presently, they are made to create music in the only purpose to get the prizes among a very little number of competitors... which are already known because at 75 or 80% always the same persons... so necessarily tunes composed regarding the tastes only of these same regular members.
The only real way to follow in order to get an exact reflect of a competition is to not allow the competitors to vote, but publicly announce in the news that the vote for OSC is open for everybody!
It needs promotions, it is obvious... but it is the only real way to get the real reflect of a large population!
Everybody has to win in such a real democratic method! Because not only it avoids all tactical votes, all complaints, etc... but also it would be the exact reflect of the variety of tastes of all the KVR members... and also it would bring many new people, many other KVR members to the competition ! (And with a real much larger variety of styles!)
But I know that it will be a heresy for all those who don't want to see the things really get better in the sense of a real monthly sounding of the tastes of not only a little group but of all the population.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
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- KVRAF
- 2103 posts since 22 Aug, 2006
I listened to your track again just now, many times. I still don't feel it. It doesn't deserve more than 1 in my rating book. The key point here is "my rating book". You may think that your track deserves to be #1 on billboard charts. Hell yeah, I think same for my own tracks too but unfortunately others don't see it that way.Tony Ostinato wrote:i might just join osc again to downvote your songs the way youre downvoting everyone else.satYatunes wrote:It is not my interpretation, it's a fact from an actual situation and I was part of it. Look at the December results here:
https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-58-spectral
I came at 6 and Jasinski didn't vote (Sorry Jasinski, had to mention your name) but I was not given a choice for prize. I did check with V'ger through PM and found out it does not work that way.
you are a class A jerk.
It seems like you are living in a dream world of your own, where you claim yourself the king. Well, good for you but we are in a real world here. Okay? NOT EVERYONE SEES EVERYTHING THE WAY YOU SEE IT. Do you understand what it means? Probably not, otherwise you wouldn't have shown such immaturity.
Anyway, I have zero respect for you now and you earned it. I will personally send you a PM when I submit a song in OSC so that you can down vote my tracks. Fair enough? Good.
For all other fellow OSCers, here is a nice message that Mr. Tony sent to me today. This won't stop me from voting honestly per my own rating standards neither will it make your tracks good for me.
[Mod edit: Image removed. Please don't post PMs.]
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- KVRAF
- 2688 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America
satYatunes wrote:Tony Ostinato wrote:satYatunes wrote:It is not my interpretation, it's a fact from an actual situation and I was part of it. Look at the December results here:
Satya can you refrain from posting PM's please. They are meant to be private.
One Synth Challenge: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/about
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- KVRian
- 1479 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
the nice thing is i did vote honestly and if you look at my votes you see im not swayed by style or fashion and you can see im judging on content.
and again, i could play your song,today, you could never play mine. you don't understand musicianship when you hear it.
maybe come back and listen to my tune when you move on to book 2 or book 3.
the fact youre in the ultra minority helps.
and again, i could play your song,today, you could never play mine. you don't understand musicianship when you hear it.
maybe come back and listen to my tune when you move on to book 2 or book 3.
the fact youre in the ultra minority helps.
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- KVRAF
- 2688 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America
Sorry guys, can you please continue this conversation privately.
One Synth Challenge: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/about
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- KVRian
- 1479 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
nothing to continue. he wins, im out.
Last edited by Tony Ostinato on Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2103 posts since 22 Aug, 2006
I just put it out there just to confirm whether this type of behavior is acceptable.bjporter wrote:satYatunes wrote:Tony Ostinato wrote:satYatunes wrote:It is not my interpretation, it's a fact from an actual situation and I was part of it. Look at the December results here:
Satya can you refrain from posting PM's please. They are meant to be private.
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- KVRist
- 41 posts since 14 Oct, 2012 from nowhere
You're having a quite unprofessional stance here. You can't force people to like your track, people have different opinions and different tastes. You should respect that, even if you get sad over it - that, actually, is perfectly understandable; calling people "jerks" just because they didn't like your track as you hoped they would is not.Tony Ostinato wrote:thing is i could play your tune, today. i could chart it up as sheet music in an hour or less.
in fact, here: anyone who voted me a 5 can get free real trumpet, tenor sax, or windsynth overdubbed on any tune they want!
And really, if you know how to play some instrument really nicely: good for you. Bragging about how good of a player you are isn't going to bring you anywhere, and if someone doesn't know how to play it, that doesn't make that person any less of a musician than you.
Anyways, let's not derail the thread with this any longer, shall we?
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- KVRian
- 1479 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
"Anyways, let's not derail the thread with this any longer, shall we?"
SO WHY CHIME IN WITH SOMETHING ID HAVE TO REPLY TO????
i think it comes down to it takes one to know one. the best players rated my track highly, ill take that.
i think it just shows its not about chords or meters or playing because those didnt get noticed, because many arent able to notice them.
like i say, come back and listen in a couple years. theres no way that tune is a 1.
"And really, if you know how to play some instrument really nicely: good for you. Bragging about how good of a player you are isn't going to bring you anywhere, and if someone doesn't know how to play it, that doesn't make that person any less of a musician than you."
absolutely untrue and thats why i make my living at music. if someone cant play live then they cant play live. telling them you can, when you really can, lets them know they can book you for live gigs.
for instance tomorrow im doing classical trumpet, jazz sax, windsynth guitars, windsynth violin and recorder and flute. ill be doing a lot of sightreading (reading music you havent seen before) and sightreading while transposing.
be able to play is a marketable trade, as is being able to read. ill be making several times the money that this contest offered.
dont try and tell me you have such big ears. judging on only taste shows you have nothing else to judge with.
soo let that be that, you won, im out, this contest is clearly not for the likes of me.
SO WHY CHIME IN WITH SOMETHING ID HAVE TO REPLY TO????
i think it comes down to it takes one to know one. the best players rated my track highly, ill take that.
i think it just shows its not about chords or meters or playing because those didnt get noticed, because many arent able to notice them.
like i say, come back and listen in a couple years. theres no way that tune is a 1.
"And really, if you know how to play some instrument really nicely: good for you. Bragging about how good of a player you are isn't going to bring you anywhere, and if someone doesn't know how to play it, that doesn't make that person any less of a musician than you."
absolutely untrue and thats why i make my living at music. if someone cant play live then they cant play live. telling them you can, when you really can, lets them know they can book you for live gigs.
for instance tomorrow im doing classical trumpet, jazz sax, windsynth guitars, windsynth violin and recorder and flute. ill be doing a lot of sightreading (reading music you havent seen before) and sightreading while transposing.
be able to play is a marketable trade, as is being able to read. ill be making several times the money that this contest offered.
dont try and tell me you have such big ears. judging on only taste shows you have nothing else to judge with.
soo let that be that, you won, im out, this contest is clearly not for the likes of me.
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- KVRian
- 800 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle
A few thoughts:
Making music in the internet age has some major advantages and some disadvantages.
It's easy to learn new technology, mixing, theory, get new inspiration, know what people are doing all over the planet.
All that can be overwhelming but I think the biggest challenge is getting anyone to actually listen to or pay attention to your creations. The internet holds the possibility of getting a lot of feedback but it's a raging river that might seem impossible to get in to.
So take a moment to consider how great OSC is- even if you use it as a stepping stone on the way to some loftier goal.
• Every month you get a chance to learn new synthesis techniques or refine your sound design skills.
• You learn discipline by creating a completed track on a deadline.
• You gain instant access to a community of like-minded creatives. It's going to take time to get to know people and find your place but it's just time, it'll happen if you are patient and polite!
• People listen to your music (and sometimes comment)!
• By voting you are exposed to music styles you would probably wouldn't listen too (that's good for your horizons)- and music producers of various skill levels. I think there is a lot to be learned from there too.
A bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now.
I find if I focus on the things I can be grateful for it helps keep me from feeling like I'm being picked on or victimized.
---
My lack of voting this month was mentioned- the reason (at least in part) was that I just moved my family. We've been getting settled in and getting things set up. I've also had some deadlines for work that kept my focus elsewhere.
Making music in the internet age has some major advantages and some disadvantages.
It's easy to learn new technology, mixing, theory, get new inspiration, know what people are doing all over the planet.
All that can be overwhelming but I think the biggest challenge is getting anyone to actually listen to or pay attention to your creations. The internet holds the possibility of getting a lot of feedback but it's a raging river that might seem impossible to get in to.
So take a moment to consider how great OSC is- even if you use it as a stepping stone on the way to some loftier goal.
• Every month you get a chance to learn new synthesis techniques or refine your sound design skills.
• You learn discipline by creating a completed track on a deadline.
• You gain instant access to a community of like-minded creatives. It's going to take time to get to know people and find your place but it's just time, it'll happen if you are patient and polite!
• People listen to your music (and sometimes comment)!
• By voting you are exposed to music styles you would probably wouldn't listen too (that's good for your horizons)- and music producers of various skill levels. I think there is a lot to be learned from there too.
A bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now.
I find if I focus on the things I can be grateful for it helps keep me from feeling like I'm being picked on or victimized.
---
My lack of voting this month was mentioned- the reason (at least in part) was that I just moved my family. We've been getting settled in and getting things set up. I've also had some deadlines for work that kept my focus elsewhere.
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- KVRAF
- 1895 posts since 13 Oct, 2002
Wow, I just caught up somewhat with this thread, and there appears to be some controversy... 
After briefly dipping my toes in this contest, I've come to the conclusion that it's really meant to be an informal contest, and as such is subject to informal voting. I don't think it's worth getting riled up about. And that's just fine!
While it's based around a VSTi and exploring it's capabilities, it's also about stylistic preferences and biases. IMO there's not enough rules to make it a formal contest, where parameter groups are defined and voting is attributed to specific categories; this would help water down the personal bias.
I personally find it very tiring to listen to a beat evolve from a groove to a groove with bassline and percs over a period of 2 minutes (it's not a a dance floor). Or to have a composition entirely built on one chord. Or to listen to a track continuously distort. These are my personal biases, and there's nothing in the evaluation process that prevents me from exercising my right to downgrade a track based on those dislikes, ignoring everything else that might make it worth vote positively for. For that matter, I may be in a positive mood when I evaluate the tracks and prefer the uplifting ones, or feel gloomy and enjoy the opposite.
It's what it is: personal and biased and subject to whatever the whims of the voters are. There's no reason to take any of it personally in any way.
BTW: I was thinking that it would be interesting to keep the entries anonymous until the contest ends, but I guess the SoundCloud angle makes that impossible.
After briefly dipping my toes in this contest, I've come to the conclusion that it's really meant to be an informal contest, and as such is subject to informal voting. I don't think it's worth getting riled up about. And that's just fine!
While it's based around a VSTi and exploring it's capabilities, it's also about stylistic preferences and biases. IMO there's not enough rules to make it a formal contest, where parameter groups are defined and voting is attributed to specific categories; this would help water down the personal bias.
I personally find it very tiring to listen to a beat evolve from a groove to a groove with bassline and percs over a period of 2 minutes (it's not a a dance floor). Or to have a composition entirely built on one chord. Or to listen to a track continuously distort. These are my personal biases, and there's nothing in the evaluation process that prevents me from exercising my right to downgrade a track based on those dislikes, ignoring everything else that might make it worth vote positively for. For that matter, I may be in a positive mood when I evaluate the tracks and prefer the uplifting ones, or feel gloomy and enjoy the opposite.
It's what it is: personal and biased and subject to whatever the whims of the voters are. There's no reason to take any of it personally in any way.
BTW: I was thinking that it would be interesting to keep the entries anonymous until the contest ends, but I guess the SoundCloud angle makes that impossible.
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- KVRAF
- 2166 posts since 7 Mar, 2014
Congrats to the winners.
My first entry to OSC ...
Thanks to all who voted me a nice score. No probs with the low ones either - my style has clearly split the vote. Whilst I will dabble with EDM and ambient/soundscape styles, I usually go for the more standard forms - a bit of backing, a few chords and a tune. You either like it or hate it - sort of musical marmite.
Anyways, enjoy the cheese in the latest comp!
Will be in the next as well - if you'll have me ...
Cheers,
Rob
(aka doctorbob)
My first entry to OSC ...
Thanks to all who voted me a nice score. No probs with the low ones either - my style has clearly split the vote. Whilst I will dabble with EDM and ambient/soundscape styles, I usually go for the more standard forms - a bit of backing, a few chords and a tune. You either like it or hate it - sort of musical marmite.
Anyways, enjoy the cheese in the latest comp!
Will be in the next as well - if you'll have me ...
Cheers,
Rob
(aka doctorbob)
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 8 Aug, 2004
Well the content of this thread certainly agrees with me....
Anyone else think submissions should be totally ANONYMOUS? We can't have a fair contest with so much opportunity for politicking and personal grudge-matches...
I love the nature of this comp (one synth), but I see far more ass kissing than constructive criticism... I'd just prefer it be less cliquey and more objective. For me, the feedback is the best part, so everyone should feel free to state their opinion without worrying that it will negatively impact their own votes!
Also, we pretty much wouldn't have any more of this senseless bickering like what's going on above...
Anyone else think submissions should be totally ANONYMOUS? We can't have a fair contest with so much opportunity for politicking and personal grudge-matches...
I love the nature of this comp (one synth), but I see far more ass kissing than constructive criticism... I'd just prefer it be less cliquey and more objective. For me, the feedback is the best part, so everyone should feel free to state their opinion without worrying that it will negatively impact their own votes!
Also, we pretty much wouldn't have any more of this senseless bickering like what's going on above...
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 8 Aug, 2004
BlackWinny wrote:the only way to avoid tactical votes, DQ's, complaints, etc.
It is:
- NO VOTE allowed from the competitors!
Agree that we need a more fair voting system. That's not the only way though. An anonymous playlist would be another way.
I would prefer the latter because of the technical nature of this comp. We need contestants voting because they are more equipped to appreciate the pure synthesis achievements. General public would tend to vote more on personal taste and songwriting rather than synth abilities (which I is more the focus of this comp, no?).
Of course songwriting is a big part, but one can still be objective about technique and sound design when they are intimately familiar with the limitations of the synth.
Personally, these were my criteria in order of importance:
1. Sound design skills
2. Originality/Creativity
3. Replay value (subjective)
